Hi guys (and gals),
Ok, so the post about strange male behavior (men expecting bjs but not giving oral, expecting a woman to cum, etc) got me thinking. i'm not sure if there's a question here, so much as a comment, but here goes:
As glad as i am that there are so many sexy men out there who are starting to see the importance of equal time and equal play in terms of oral sex, i take serious umbrage with the "pussy is like a postage stamp" philosophy. In many ways i find it worse than the obsession / pressure for me to cum for you.
The reason is this: for me recieving oral sex is an incredibly vulnerable thing, cuz i've had some really bad experiences with this and it is likely to trigger me if i don't know and trust my partner very well. Don't get me wrong, i love sex, and i love giving bjs (and cunnilingus on women too, but this is the sexy man tribe) but one of the first ways to make me run for cover is to announce to me in a bar or on a first date that you'd like to lick my pussy. And if you can't stop talking about it when i shyly rebuff you, you may not realize it but that's the reason i probably didn't call you back for the second date.
Of course, its important to me in relationships to have equal time, and of course, i'd love to cum for you, but it's not going to be orally. If you get me into a mischievious mood, i may masterbate for you, and if you earn my trust i may show you how to make it happen. The best lovers i've ever had treated it like a gift, not a puzzle.
As a side note, while i have met several trans MtoF ladys who really were lesbians in a man's body, i find it very offensive when a man uses this as a pick up line to "display his skill or love of eating out." Unless you're wanting to start the hormones and change your name, you are not and will never be a lesbian.
In conclusion, it is your attitude and attention to detail that will convince me you are a good bet for a lay or possibly more. Show me through your eye contact and the heat in your gaze that you want me. Show me with your kisses why i should let you put your mouth all over me. If you seem patient with the waitress at dinner i will guess that you've got enough patience with other things too... get the picture? We're pretty smart, and we are watching you. You don't need to shout your skills (or your size) from the rooftops.
Ok, rant over. Women, am i alone in this? Men, please note that i may be the only one who feels this way due to my past trauma, but i'm a very sexual person, i attend play parties, etc, and i don't come off as wounded or broken so you may not be aware of the effect you're having on her until she walks away.
Blessings,
~birdie.
Ok, so the post about strange male behavior (men expecting bjs but not giving oral, expecting a woman to cum, etc) got me thinking. i'm not sure if there's a question here, so much as a comment, but here goes:
As glad as i am that there are so many sexy men out there who are starting to see the importance of equal time and equal play in terms of oral sex, i take serious umbrage with the "pussy is like a postage stamp" philosophy. In many ways i find it worse than the obsession / pressure for me to cum for you.
The reason is this: for me recieving oral sex is an incredibly vulnerable thing, cuz i've had some really bad experiences with this and it is likely to trigger me if i don't know and trust my partner very well. Don't get me wrong, i love sex, and i love giving bjs (and cunnilingus on women too, but this is the sexy man tribe) but one of the first ways to make me run for cover is to announce to me in a bar or on a first date that you'd like to lick my pussy. And if you can't stop talking about it when i shyly rebuff you, you may not realize it but that's the reason i probably didn't call you back for the second date.
Of course, its important to me in relationships to have equal time, and of course, i'd love to cum for you, but it's not going to be orally. If you get me into a mischievious mood, i may masterbate for you, and if you earn my trust i may show you how to make it happen. The best lovers i've ever had treated it like a gift, not a puzzle.
As a side note, while i have met several trans MtoF ladys who really were lesbians in a man's body, i find it very offensive when a man uses this as a pick up line to "display his skill or love of eating out." Unless you're wanting to start the hormones and change your name, you are not and will never be a lesbian.
In conclusion, it is your attitude and attention to detail that will convince me you are a good bet for a lay or possibly more. Show me through your eye contact and the heat in your gaze that you want me. Show me with your kisses why i should let you put your mouth all over me. If you seem patient with the waitress at dinner i will guess that you've got enough patience with other things too... get the picture? We're pretty smart, and we are watching you. You don't need to shout your skills (or your size) from the rooftops.
Ok, rant over. Women, am i alone in this? Men, please note that i may be the only one who feels this way due to my past trauma, but i'm a very sexual person, i attend play parties, etc, and i don't come off as wounded or broken so you may not be aware of the effect you're having on her until she walks away.
Blessings,
~birdie.
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Portland
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Mon, July 7, 2008 - 9:15 PMI totally agree......and it's a relief to hear a woman say that oral sex makes them feel vulnerable.
In fact, to me it's more intimate that intercourse. And I won't go there with a man with whom I
don't have a relationship built on trust and understanding. Mine is totally based on my past,
and on the sexually abusive type of things my ex husband put me through. And I've moved
past all of it except it still overshadows a few little corners of my life.
Thank you for sharing that Jaybird,
Vixxen -
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Mon, July 7, 2008 - 10:33 PMI appreciated reading that; thank you for writing it.
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Sat, July 12, 2008 - 10:07 PMI agree, also, about feeling *very* vulnerable during oral, and no one is getting *near* there if I don't deeply trust and adore them, certainly not with their mouth! Directly related to childhood sexual abuse, without question. I actually had my first orgasm from oral just a couple of years ago, when I was 35/36! That means that I have only had 'em with two *amazing* men thus far! The nicest gift there was realizing that I am multi-orgasmic - if you can get me there once in a "session", it's pretty much guaranteed that the next ones will follow much easier, which *rocks*!!! I also know pretty quickly into things if it's just NOT going to happen, and will apologetically explain such to my lover, allowing him the decision whether or not to continue (and also feeling bad about not being able to & not wanting to wear him out unnecessarily). I have been pleasantly surprised a couple of times; reminded to get out of my HEAD, and back into my body.
One boyfriend wouldn't touch or taste me (his hangups were pretty intense), but, luckily, the way we were both constructed, I could orgasm through intercourse almost every time. I had my first orgasm this way (o.k., at *all*, ever) when I was about 23 years old. Of the 5 men I have had an intercourse-related orgasm with, only two partners were reliable for me, and that was all about how they were constructed; how their body met mine (hardness and bounce of the mattress made a difference, too). Generally, though, orgasms are very elusive for me, and I'm far more used to just enjoying the sensations and process than expecting an outcome. That being said, I *do* love it, love it, LOVE IT when my lover comes in me - in me, on me, whatever works! I love knowing that I had a hand, so to speak, in helping him (or her) feel incredible! There's great satisfaction in a job well done, but, again, I understand the flip side, and if I'm communicated with that my partner is perfectly happy without being able to come, well, that's just fine. I don't appreciate being pressured, and I show my lovers the same respect.
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self addressed and stamped envelope
Tue, July 8, 2008 - 10:35 PMMe, I heart oral sex. A man who can use his tongue and fingers at the same time can take me places nothing else will. But, let there be no mistake, I still get WAY creeped out when a guy starts going off about how much he'd lover to lick me for hours and hours and..... slowly edge towards the door. I will also run from a man who goes on and on about how much he wants to fuck my pussy, or finger my ass, or suck on my toes, or any other thing that is indicating to me that A) this person is a tad obsessive, B) they're WAY more interested in their idea of how sex "should" go than in any thoughts I may have about what I want, and C) they think they know how to pleasure a woman and their confidence in their mad skillz means they won't ask or listen to how I like my buttons pushed. Ick. Oh, and do NOT brag about your cock. Really. EVERY man I have ever know who bragged about how big his cock was had absolutely nothing to brag about. Yes, I see folks naked a lot. No, I did not sleep with them nor was I ever tempted to. Even if you're hung like a rampant bull elephant be humble about it. If you absolutely MUST brag then state it in inches, then we can decide if we're impressed or not and a size queen can come grab you (or not).
Also, anecdotally, I have known a man who is a lesbian trapped in a man's body and has absolutely no desire to change sexes. He LOVES having a cock (though he did consider getting breast implants but still had no intention to live as a woman), but is completely confused by men and acts like such a stereotypical woman that he drives me up a wall. I swear he even has monthly PMS.... which must be placated with chocolate. -
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Re: self addressed and stamped envelope
Tue, July 8, 2008 - 11:13 PMRight on, Myriad! Woo hoo! -
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Re: self addressed and stamped envelope
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 1:22 AM<If you seem patient with the waitress at dinner i will guess that you've got enough patience with other things too...>
I'll second that.
Oral is so many things but definitely not good by following a "how to..." list. LOL =-)
Lick that stamp.... I dunno about that. ;-)
or as a happily married male friend once told me... "I lick her like a tasty ice cream cone, one deliberate lick at a time. Slowly savoring each taste Licking in long licks, then short. Savoring every drop". They've got about 25 years with their happy marriage.
Oral was never the same after his story. -
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Re: self addressed and stamped envelope
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 8:29 PM"Lick that stamp.... I dunno about that. ;-) "
Just in case there are folks who don't know the old joke it goes like this:
A young man says, "The only thing my dad ever taught me about sex was:
'Remember, son, its like a postage stamp. You gotta lick before you stick.'"
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Re: self addressed and stamped envelope
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 12:00 PM>"I still get WAY creeped out when a guy starts going off about how much he'd lover to lick me for hours and hours and..... slowly edge towards the door. I will also run from a man who goes on and on about how much he wants to fuck my pussy, or finger my ass, or suck on my toes, or any other thing that is indicating to me that A) this person is a tad obsessive, B) they're WAY more interested in their idea of how sex "should" go than in any thoughts I may have about what I want, and C) they think they know how to pleasure a woman and their confidence in their mad skillz means they won't ask or listen to how I like my buttons pushed. Ick. Oh, and do NOT brag about your cock. Really. EVERY man I have ever know who bragged about how big his cock was had absolutely nothing to brag about."
I just love the way you put that. So much so, that I quoted you just for a second reading. =)
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Re: self addressed and stamped envelope
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 8:28 PM"I will also run from a man who goes on and on about how much he wants to fuck my pussy, or finger my ass, or suck on my toes, or any other thing that is indicating to me that A) this person is a tad obsessive, B) they're WAY more interested in their idea of how sex "should" go than in any thoughts I may have about what I want, and C) they think they know how to pleasure a woman and their confidence in their mad skillz means they won't ask or listen to how I like my buttons pushed."
Exactly, Myriad, thank you for putting it so eloquently. i guess i think of it like a "hard sell" (pun intended) tactic... if i go to the used car dealership and some salesperson keeps talking up the SUV it makes me wonder what's wrong with it. Its worse if they didn't ask what kind of car i was shopping for in the first place, and worst of all is if i've told them i'm in the market for a corvette and they _still_ try to sell it to me. Makes me think that a) he's not listening to me, b) he has his own interests at heart and not what's best for me, and c) he's willing to walk over me or manipulate me to get his needs met. Not appealing.
As for the oral thing, i guess the real point is that while the vast majority of women cum most easily this way, there are some of us out there who (for whatever reason) aren't as interested in this particular activity. And while i will definitely give a man props for offering, especially if it's clear that he's interested in making sure i get my needs met and that my pleasure excites him, it is not necessarily good for any man to overemphasize any one particular sex act (unless that's really the only thing you want).
One last point: please feel free to ask us what turns us on. If you've done a good job of making me feel safe and sexy, i'm pretty good at telling --or even showing-- what i like. And please don't take the idea of toys personally! Even if its a toy, and not your cock that's getting me to that final point, you're still the person who's wielding it, or at very least the person who has turned me on enough that i'll show you. Baby steps, my dears, baby steps. ;-)
~birdie.
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 1:42 PMThat type of objectification is purely delicious after they've recognized your soul. :)
~ Kole -
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 9:25 PMthat is totally true.
if a man isnt paying attention to the me inside, he aint gettin a piece of the me outside. period. -
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Thu, July 10, 2008 - 8:30 AMTalking, flirtinging, teasing, dancing, romance that is how I believe it should be done. Although there is somthing to be said for "getting drunk and screwin" from time to time. I mostly enjoy the romance as well as the sex.
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Thu, July 10, 2008 - 10:19 AMAn old friend of mine had a BF who would leer at her and announce "I'm going to knock you down and eat your pussy!" She found it strangely alluring.
I really enjoy giving oral, so if you don't like it (and yes, I will do everything I can to figure out how you like it!), we may not work out so hot. -
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Thu, July 10, 2008 - 9:49 PM"An old friend of mine had a BF who would leer at her and announce "I'm going to knock you down and eat your pussy!" She found it strangely alluring."
Lol, you know, i can kinda see how she might. My problem is with men who use this as a primary pick up line. For all that i agree with most of the women in the "strange male behavior" thread that i don't like having a man assume that he hasn't succeeded unless 'he's made me cum,' i have also been the submissive to a man who trained me to cum on demand. All things are flexible, i guess i just wanted to broach the subject to those men who seem to think "i'll lick your pussy" is the magic phrase.
"I really enjoy giving oral, so if you don't like it (and yes, I will do everything I can to figure out how you like it!), we may not work out so hot."
Not necessarily, to be honest. (not that i'm shopping, but you know...) In fact, i find that some of my favorite lovers were particularly interested in giving oral, but the trick was that they weren't obsessed with it being the quickest way to get me a)in bed, and b) to cum. Those who have helped me to heal from my traumas by earning my trust first and surprising me with their delight in my body are amazing and i feel blessed to have been their lover. It is a good point though that if that's you're favorite thing to do, we may not be a match, and in that case... no hard feelings, of course!
thanks Uncle Sticky for helping me to clarify. ;-)
~birdie.
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Fri, July 11, 2008 - 9:00 AMMy problem is with men who use this as a primary pick up line.
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What's weird is that this doesn't seem to be uncommon. l've had it happen literally minutes after meeting a man on several occasions. l wonder if he's been misled by some young thing who told him that this is how all women would love to be approached. l can see how some might dig this, but still.
"Hey, girl, l'd luuuuuv to lick your pussy!"
"Really? l'm taken care of in that arena, thanks, but if you really want to do something for me, my pool needs cleaning. Now just put on this leopard bikini and dance...."
or
"lf l don't reciprocate, will that be a problem?" (Which l actually said in one instance, and he promptly lost interest.) -
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Mon, July 14, 2008 - 7:11 PMAli, i think i'm in love with you!
This is precicely the problem i'm trying to address! And perhaps i'm talking to the wrong crowd, considering we have so many cool, amazing, sexxxy men out there on this tribe (i may be preaching to the choir)... i just wanted to put out a heads up that this may not be the best thing to say in the first half hour of knowing a woman!
And you're replies are fantastic! i'll have to use them next time!
~birdie.
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Tue, July 15, 2008 - 8:44 AMAli,
"lf l don't reciprocate, will that be a problem?" (Which l actually said in one instance, and he promptly lost interest.)"
Try not to stick to that line. A guy saying they would love to lick your pussy, told they would get no reciprocation, still could be willing for the fact of getting to eat your pussy.
Keep in mind that some guys play the odds too. If 1 in 20 women take them up on the offer, than they achieved what they desired.
Not saying it's right, just truth in percentages, as he is selling his product like a salesperson.
Betcha -
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Tue, July 15, 2008 - 2:33 PM"lf l don't reciprocate, will that be a problem?" (Which l actually said in one instance, and he promptly lost interest.)"
Try not to stick to that line. A guy saying they would love to lick your pussy, told they would get no reciprocation, still could be willing for the fact of getting to eat your pussy."
l'm not sure how that's my responsibility. l'm not comfortable with a man offering to lick my kitty within minutes. l certainly am not comfortable offering to lick him within minutes. Just cuz he wants to doesn't mean l owe him a goddamn thing. Sorry, men. No offense.
"Keep in mind that some guys play the odds too. If 1 in 20 women take them up on the offer, than they achieved what they desired.
Not saying it's right, just truth in percentages, as he is selling his product like a salesperson. "
Uh, okay. l just feel so much better knowing my pussy is a product! Yay!
And your advice encourages me how, exactly?
No. l am not about catering to egos and misplaced pickup lines. You're more than welcome to have at it, though. -
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Wed, July 16, 2008 - 4:30 PMI think the point was "Be careful, that may sound like an offer and he MAY be encouraged and try to take you up on it."
Correct me if I'm wrong, Betcha -
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Wed, July 16, 2008 - 5:26 PMAli, Myriad is 100% correct on what I meant.
Try not to take offense, as I was referring to how it could be taken.
Betcha -
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Wed, July 16, 2008 - 5:35 PMOkay, thank you both for clarifying. l was being facetious for the most part. l've learned that giving a man *any* potential indication that something might happen (no matter how minor or nonexistent that indication might be) is unwise. l don't say l'm going there unless l'm completely willing to do so. Plus, it's only fair to both parties.
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Wed, July 16, 2008 - 5:32 PMAli,
As for these parts:
"Uh, okay. l just feel so much better knowing my pussy is a product! Yay!
And your advice encourages me how, exactly?"
It is a "product" to some men. Not trying to burst a bubble, but some guys see it that way. Immature as fuck, but nevertheless they do.
How does this encourage you? It doesn't. It is a sad fact that women have to deal with this, along with some of us guys.
"No. l am not about catering to egos and misplaced pickup lines. You're more than welcome to have at it, though."
I need not use any pick up lines, lol. In case you didn't know, which some do and some don't; I am happily married and need not pursue anyone, whether with good lines or cheesy ones. I compliment others, appreciate their minds, bodies or souls, as my wife does too, but need not "score" with anyone, lol.
Betcha -
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Wed, July 16, 2008 - 5:40 PMAli,
"As for these parts:
"Uh, okay. l just feel so much better knowing my pussy is a product! Yay!
And your advice encourages me how, exactly?"
It is a "product" to some men. Not trying to burst a bubble, but some guys see it that way. Immature as fuck, but nevertheless they do."
l don't mean to dismiss your sage advice, but l'm already well aware of this fact. lt sort of comes with the territory.
"I need not use any pick up lines, lol. In case you didn't know, which some do and some don't; I am happily married and need not pursue anyone, whether with good lines or cheesy ones. I compliment others, appreciate their minds, bodies or souls, as my wife does too, but need not "score" with anyone, lol. "
l didn't mean to imply this was your MO in any way. l was being sarcastic because frankly, at first, l felt your post was a bit condescending. We've cleared that part up, though, so no worries, l just want to be clear. -
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Thu, July 17, 2008 - 3:33 PMAll good and didn't mean to sound condescending.
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Thu, July 10, 2008 - 11:50 AMSigh…
I have said this countless times both on line and in my day to day life…
“Every Woman is a distinctive and beautiful creature”
What may be an incredible turn on to one woman will make another Bolt for the door or slap your face.
Until you take the time necessary to know who she is…
And what she needs to feel satisfied sensually…
With these things being as Mutable as the Woman herself…
You will never know…
Each encounter is a gift…
Every person you meet will teach you…
It is up to you to learn to listen…
David
The Dark Knight -
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Thu, July 10, 2008 - 10:02 PMAgree totally... good words
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Sat, July 12, 2008 - 12:38 PMI would feel creeped out if a woman came on to me with the "hard sell" too. Maybe because I'm most interested in what a woman has up North, and if she feels the need to over sell what she has down South, I would see it as a ploy to redirect my attention there. Personally I wait till I have a more developed relationship to a woman before I would even mention what I would like to do to her in the bedroom.
I would most certainly wait for the signs that she is interested in my bedroom behaviors. Otherwise, I'll keep the conversations at above the waist. Perhaps some guys think they are complimenting a woman with such lewd suggestions upon first meeting them?
I tend towards the classier type of woman myself. -
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Sat, July 12, 2008 - 7:14 PMThat's just crude and silly. And, yeah, damn, mentioning stuff to EITHER gender like that as a "primary pickup" line is creepy, and obviously could access issues.
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Mon, July 14, 2008 - 4:03 PMI can't believe that this would be a primary pick up line, unless you were in a sex club! Even then, I'd think it was a little, errrr, forward?
In my world "I'll lick your pussy" is just assumed, contingent upon us being attracted to each other and wanting to fool around. I mean, who doesn't give oral these days? And why? -
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Mon, July 14, 2008 - 6:56 PMA surprising number of folks don't give oral, and they have their reasons, but they never make a whole lotta sense to me.
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Mon, July 14, 2008 - 7:21 PMAgain, Uncle Sticky, you inspire me to response. ;-)
"I can't believe that this would be a primary pick up line, unless you were in a sex club! Even then, I'd think it was a little, errrr, forward?"
i don't take it quite so personally at play parties, in part cuz i kinda expect that kind of thing. But i've had men offer it to me on the street, at school (college of course), and at completely vanilla parties. Weird. i've never thought of myself as the kind of girl that inspires that kind of attention! Maybe it's because i'm out and bi, so the assumption is that this may be the way to my heart, or at least into my pants! Ha! ;-)
"In my world "I'll lick your pussy" is just assumed, contingent upon us being attracted to each other and wanting to fool around. I mean, who doesn't give oral these days? And why?"
Another excellent point (as is Myriad's response)! To be honest, when i'm in a situation where my partner makes me feel excited and comfortable enough to allow myself to relax and enjoy receiving, i find that i need my partner to act like i'm downright delish. i think my issues with receiving stem in part from childhood trauma but also from having people go down there and act like "ewww! Sticky!!" No way to make me go from open and juicy to shut down faster!
~birdie.
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Re: Like a postage stamp...
Fri, July 18, 2008 - 11:38 PM"I mean, who doesn't give oral these days? And why?"
i think people have hangups about all kinds of things, even in this day and age. we arent all that evolved yet,yknow. : )
i do know a lot of women who refuse(d) to do that, primarily because they were forced to do that at some point in their life. and it totally turned them off. and i can understand that. its sexual assault, expect people dont fully realize that, because it wasnt intercourse, or because it was someone they were in a relationship with. im still shocked at how many women have gone through that, but i would imagine that that would be really tough to get past.
thats another reason i think people need to be gentle and respectful with each other about sex. i dont mean not have hard and fast sex or anything. i just mean, give people space to emerge, not push boundaries without their consent.
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