Ok the reason i ask this is:
I am 35 and seriously in my sexual prime, I have a friend she is 25 and you could say the same as me as far as her sex drive is concerned, we have spent the last few days bitching about the fact that men have become women, well at least here in OZ, we know what we want, especially when it comes to sex, and men a being a bunch of girls, they either are so scared they can't perform, or they don't shut up during the whole process shaking like a leaf, they think if we want a booty call, it means we want a relationship (Booty call is just that sex, and nothing else).
What ever happened to the male out there driven by pure lust, and just wanted sex. (because he doesn't exist here anymore)
Has womens rights gone to far and we have hurt ourselves by becoming assertive and dominant?
guys i need to know what you think
X ref (ASWA)
I am 35 and seriously in my sexual prime, I have a friend she is 25 and you could say the same as me as far as her sex drive is concerned, we have spent the last few days bitching about the fact that men have become women, well at least here in OZ, we know what we want, especially when it comes to sex, and men a being a bunch of girls, they either are so scared they can't perform, or they don't shut up during the whole process shaking like a leaf, they think if we want a booty call, it means we want a relationship (Booty call is just that sex, and nothing else).
What ever happened to the male out there driven by pure lust, and just wanted sex. (because he doesn't exist here anymore)
Has womens rights gone to far and we have hurt ourselves by becoming assertive and dominant?
guys i need to know what you think
X ref (ASWA)
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Re: QUESTION: ARE MEN AFRAID OF WOMEN WHO KNOW WHAT THEY WANT (especially in regards to sex) ?
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 6:17 AMDon't get me wrong i would love nothing more than a relationship but i am not getting that so:
This doesn't just apply to booty calls either, it applies to relationships, do guys have a serious problem with women who are in touch with there sexuality and know what they want in regards to sex?
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Re: QUESTION: ARE MEN AFRAID OF WOMEN WHO KNOW WHAT THEY WANT (especially in regards to sex) ?
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 6:39 AMNot afraid or offended, at all. Of course that road runs both ways. -
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Re: QUESTION: ARE MEN AFRAID OF WOMEN WHO KNOW WHAT THEY WANT (especially in regards to sex) ?
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 7:57 AMok butt the thing is the men here seem to be a bunch of girly girls it is driving us poor females insane, it is bad when you can't get just old fashioned good lusty sex, because he is being an over analyzing twit....... -
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Re: QUESTION: ARE MEN AFRAID OF WOMEN WHO KNOW WHAT THEY WANT (especially in regards to sex) ?
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 8:01 AMPerhaps you should visit Portland, Oregon.... :-)
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If Only They Knew...
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 8:52 AMI can speak only for myself, but my recent experiences (and *especially* with women in their thirties) is that many women who claim to be "in touch with their needs" are mostly just need, selfish or lazy. A mature person truly in touch with their needs is actively meeting, adjusting themselves and their own life to be better, happier and more holistic, not waiting for some prince charming to come rescue them from themselves. I think it is terrific when a woman knows and asks for what she wants, but why should it be my obligation to give it to her?
I came of age during the height of angry Dworkin feminism, and I took it seriously. I trusted that righteous anger, and one of the main things it told me over and over was that women did not exist for the convenience and pleasure of men but in their own right and for themselves. Of the dozens of serious young women I knew and admired, every one of them was strong, passionate, fierce and loving. And one of the main things they told me (as a boy of twenty or so) was that my job as a man in this culture was to take care of my own needs and help other men, to listen and pay special attention to those I claimed to love or need.
When I think of what I really want, I look at the world and ask how realistic it is. Is it possible at all? If it were to happen, HOW could it happen? What can I do? Complaining that contemporary men are somehow effeminate or weak is exactly analogous to those men who complain that modern women are all ball-busting scolds, then pursue mail-order brides or engage in sexual tourism. I hear a lot of people telling me what they want, but for my own health often choose not to give it them. Suck it up and look to the beam in your own eye.
As I think I have noted before: God answers all prayers, and sometimes She says no. -
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Re: If Only They Knew...
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 9:42 AM"I came of age during the height of angry Dworkin feminism, and I took it seriously. I trusted that righteous anger, and one of the main things it told me over and over was that women did not exist for the convenience and pleasure of men but in their own right and for themselves."
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I think you and I came of age under similar circumstances, Mac.
-Though in my fantasy life I may still enjoy the idle fancy once in distant awhiles that women do exist for my personal pleasure, I don't confuse fantasy with real life.
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Re: If Only They Knew...
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 10:26 AMSee you over analyzed what i was saying.....
It is simple were are the males out there who are happy just having sex,
I am far from needy, selfish or lazy, i am no way any of those, actually my flaw is that i always put myself last, and worry about everyone else.... and i am definitely not lost in a fantasy world of waiting for prince charming to appear, i never have.... I am single, a mother, independent, and don't rely on a man because there isn't one, so when i say i want sex, why does that have to be a big deal....why should i have to suck it up with that attitude the next time a hear a guy saying he wants something i will tell him to do it himself, why should it be my obligation to give it to him.....that is ridiculous.......
"A mature person truly in touch with their needs is actively meeting, adjusting themselves and their own life to be better, happier and more holistic" you obviously haven't read my profile either......
i have studied gender studies, i am not a feminist, and i am nothing more than a female that embraces her own sexuality and sexual needs and when she wants sex can't see the problem with having it.... nothing else just pure unadulterated, lust filled sex.....my problem is that men are over analyzing this request for more than it is, isn't after all that what men wanted.....
why does there always have to be a but....
I merely made an observation based on what girlfriends and my own experience has shown us, that the male that is happy to just have SEX pure and simple is becoming extinct.....they don't want relationships, but the don't believe woman are capable of just sex, therefore over analyzing something that doesn't require it......
anyway you can only do so much yourself before the batteries run flat...........
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Re: If Only They Knew...
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 10:49 AMI don't believe all men these days are effeminate, and I think it is to women's benefit as a whole that men learn to associate love with sex, since just fucking us and using us as sex objects is an unconscious way of being. Also, the products of just plain lustful sex too often results in unwanted children. I am a single mom...have gone for years without sex, and took care of my own needs...even when I was horny as hell. You say you are a single mom...independent and don't rely on a man...then take care of your own needs as well and stop expecting a man to be YOUR sex object! -
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Re: If Only They Knew...
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 11:13 AMI have been taking care of my own needs for nearly 14 years, i can't see why it is such an issue if i want to have some physical contact with someone that has a heart beat instead of something that runs on batteries.....
And i did say, that i prefer a relationship, but i also deal with way life is also, and i don't expect a man to be my sex object at all, but that is one sided, it is ok for men to spend decades using us a sex objects but i am condemned because at the moment i want to have physical contact with someone, without complications....just have good old fashioned sex......
I didn't say all men were acting effeminate, i said basically that there was a turning trend here is OZ.
And you can have lustful sex safely.......
"it is to women's benefit as a whole that men learn to associate love with sex,"
yes this i agree with, but not always going to be the case......
I would love nothing more to be in love and spending the rest of my life with someone who will make love not have sex.....but i also live in the real world and that is not always possible, I am loving, passionate, caring, sensual, and i am single....do the math of what is reality and fantasy....and sometimes what we want most we can't have, there fore you settle....there is nothing wrong with occasionally wanting to have sex, no complications because you want to be with another human. have the intimacy and pleasure....and to feel like a woman....to feel......
So far i am being condemned for this because people have over analyzed what i have said in both tribes....
I stand condemned......
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Re: If Only They Knew...
Mon, May 5, 2008 - 2:06 PM"I stand condemned...."
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Well, don't take it like that! It's a good question. I think most people really just don't quite understand the scenario.
It could be that it is a little more complicated than first meets the eye.
There could be any number of possibilities on why that one guy bailed on you in your personal experience, for example.
There could be his own personal reasons, or some larger sociological trends, possibly.
I was a young sparky in the era that Mac describes, above. I've had a girlfriend start crying during sex and say "I feel like you're objectifying me..." So, even if I may think it would be a nifty idea to phone a girl and say, "meet me at Appleby's and I'm going take you out and fuck you behind the dumpster", it's possible that guys of my era are a little reticent to come out and say so.
I have to hear verbally (or in e-mail, I guess), in no uncertain terms that I have permission to say or do those kinds of things - of course, with the understanding that goes with it that anyone can say "no, thanks" to anything pretty much anytime.
I'm just using the Appleby's thing as a silly example, but the point it that guys of a certain background do need explicit permission before they'll feel free to say (and permsission again, probably, to do) anything that comes into their heads.
Have you talked to the guy in your example since? Did he shed any light on whatever happened?
I empathize with you one the "...lucky to get laid once a year" thing. I feel your pain, to put it in appropriately Clintonesque terms. That is a damn shame. -
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Re: If Only They Knew...
Mon, May 5, 2008 - 7:33 PMthe only thing i have heard from him is that he wants me to clean his house once a fortnight.....sheeesh this is what i am talking about how is it you can go from lets have sex to will you clean my house.....all because i said yes to the first part....
thank you S. Archer
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Portland is Just Too Small
Mon, May 5, 2008 - 9:21 PMOh, man! Did you date her too? It is so odd to find that shoe on the other foot. "With great power comes great responsibility." -
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Re: Portland is Just Too Small
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 6:24 AMHeh, I've dated the woman version of your man. Sheesh. Kiss a girl and she thinks you're ready to play lesbian housewife!
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Re: If Only They Knew...
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 11:19 AM<.independent and don't rely on a man...then take care of your own needs as well and stop expecting a man to be YOUR sex object!
*applauds*
There's nothing wrong with wanting or needing sex, but you have to use the tools at hand, so to speak. If you want a fuckboy for a night, go get one, but they aren't necessarily going to fall at your feet. Most men are multidimensional creatures, just like most women are. -
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Re: If Only They Knew...
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 11:28 AMPeople have totally missed the point.... I asked a simple question that had come up in conversation with others, and i have been hung drawn and quartered for it.....
then its probably my fault i may not have stated things clearly of simply enough so that things did not get over analyzed....
And any new comments i have made seem to be irrelevant.....
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There are no simple questions, only simple people
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 12:37 PMActually, there aren't any simple people either.
You are upset that we're over-analyzinf your question but there is no other way to answer it. You ask "Where have all the horny bastards gone?!?" We're trying to answer you. Those "horny bastards" always were people. The notion that all men want is a place to stick their dick just isn't true for the majority of men, but a very visable minority gives most men a bad image. Many men, just like many women, feel cheap if you try to use them as a dildo with a pulse. They too want to be recognized as human beings with thier own pricless beauty. Nobody likes to feel like a mere replaceable body part.
And, well, you're sounding like a raging sexist and that never fails to raise ire in both AASWA and here in ASSMA. Hell, Web even tried to agree with you, kinda, but here you are being petulant and claiming that nobody's listening to you.
We ARE listening to you and we ARE answering you. We're just not giving you the answer you wanted.
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Re: If Only They Knew...
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 12:45 PM< I asked a simple question that had come up in conversation with others, and i have been hung drawn and quartered for it..... >
In not sure where you get that impression. I don't see you being vilified and ridiculed here. But, as Myriad said, it definitely appears we're just not giving you the answer you want.
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Re: If Only They Knew...
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 12:21 PMI gave a partial answer to this on the AASWA tribe. The question simply comes across as insulting. Almost every guy sometimes enjoys sex for sex's sake, some more often than others; and the same is true for women. The accusation that men are beoming women manages to convey a certain amount of contempt for both sexes (as I read it; i am allowing for some misunderstanding on my part). I am a feminist insofar as a male can be, but I'm a guy too, and I get a little tired of having my gender characterized as dichotomoized between brutal, emotionally stunted cockhounds, or sissies. Men and women cover the whole spectrum of characteristics. If a woman approached me with the attitude that I needed to conform in every way to her conception of masculinity in order to get laid, there would be no question of performance anxiety; I wouldn't bother with either a one night stand or any other kind of relationship. I have better things to do in bed than worry about whether I'm fitting in with someone's stereotypes. -
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Re: If Only They Knew...
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 5:54 PM"the fact that men have become women, well at least here in OZ, we know what we want, especially when it comes to sex, and men a being a bunch of girls, they either are so scared they can't perform, or they don't shut up during the whole process shaking like a leaf, they think if we want a booty call, it means we want a relationship (Booty call is just that sex, and nothing else).
What ever happened to the male out there driven by pure lust, and just wanted sex. (because he doesn't exist here anymore)"
yikes. sorry but the world in which i live women own their sexuality and dont do any of the bullshit you described.
the male probably got the fk away from that stereotypical crap the moment they saw it coming. get off that shit and just realize that you're not running into men who aren't mature enough to handle a sexually confident woman. it has nothing to do with them acting like "girls."
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Re: QUESTION: ARE MEN AFRAID OF WOMEN WHO KNOW WHAT THEY WANT (especially in regards to sex) ?
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 6:17 PMPersonally, I'm really sick of women who don't know what they want and try to make me guess....
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Re: QUESTION: ARE MEN AFRAID OF WOMEN WHO KNOW WHAT THEY WANT (especially in regards to sex) ?
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 6:27 PMSince the thread (as usual) is convoluting into a rash of sidebars regarding their opinion of what you're doing, instead of actually ADDRESSING the question itself/point being made, I'll do it line by line.
"What ever happened to the male out there driven by pure lust, and just wanted sex. (because he doesn't exist here anymore)"
Over the last half-century, men have been condemned for expressing their lust for what it is. The 'lustful male' archetype has been demonized as something to be avoided and eschewed, and this is partly why you don't see as many 'manly men' in Western countries as you may have in years past. Combine that with an increasingly common substance-driven life, liberally littered with a largely lackadaisical living standard and the host of reading materials providing dating advice via a sterilized, overly cautious PC approach, and the result is there for you to see :).
"Has womens rights gone to far and we have hurt ourselves by becoming assertive and dominant?"
No-brainer to the first part of the question; or rather, it HAS BEEN going too far in the wrong direction, to the detriment of male-to-female relations everywhere. Being assertive and dominant isn't really what is causing males to be in the sphere you're describing; nonetheless, many males really -don't- seem ready to take what is offered for what it is, particularly a good time with a girl.
If they're in the right headspace (heh heh heh..), they will not give a shit, and opportunities like you present don't come along often enough for many men to be 'ready and prepared' for. A woman who knows what she wants and directly asks for it is theoretically what men may prefer.. but put into practice, the situation seems to reverse a lot (the 'typical guy' all of sudden doesn't know WTF he wants LOL).
Any other questions?
~ Kole -
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Re: QUESTION: ARE MEN AFRAID OF WOMEN WHO KNOW WHAT THEY WANT (especially in regards to sex) ?
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 7:16 PMThank you.....Kole...
As to the others, There was on offense intended, i was making comment and asking a question to a situation and observation made to recent events. And the fact that it was becoming more and more common. And these aren't complete strangers, a couple have been actual male friends.
Secondly, as previously state, I am lucky if i have sex once a year, so i am not out running around like a dog on heat after sex. I don't have men on a pedestal as sex objects, far from it......
And thirdly I was the one that was asked for sex, i didn't do the asking, i just said simply yes, and he has run scared....because i said yes.... These situations are happening not because we have gone after it, but it has come to us and then the male has decided to go ga ga....and i said they were acting like girly girls, that means some one under the age of 18, I did not say they were acting like woman if that offended i am sorry, as i said an observation, of there behavior....
All did was ask what happened to the guys that asked for sex and jumped for joy if you said yes.....and why are they so bloody scared?
I know what i want in a relationship, i also know what i want in bed, and i also know that men need to be seduced and have there ego stroked apart from other things.....and i have never ever just walked up to a male and said lets have sex......
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Re: QUESTION: ARE MEN AFRAID OF WOMEN WHO KNOW WHAT THEY WANT (especially in regards to sex) ?
Mon, May 5, 2008 - 6:28 AMHmmmm, there's also a chance that you're not running into products of women's lib but rather the older Madonna/Whore complex. Some men desire women who they see as "pure" but if they find out she actually like and wants sex then she is devalued in their eyes and they lose interest. They want her to play the coy maiden having to be won from her chastity. If that's the case then, trust me, you are much better off without them.
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You Might Try an MMA Gym
Mon, May 5, 2008 - 9:18 PMThere are plenty of smart, butchy boys at a good mixed martial arts gym, but pick one that generates real fighters. If you can cook and don't mind tattoos, you have a good chance to be treasured. -
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Re: You Might Try an MMA Gym
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 12:12 AM"There are plenty of smart, butchy boys at a good mixed martial arts gym, but pick one that generates real fighters. If you can cook and don't mind tattoos, you have a good chance to be treasured."
huh? im sorry but that made absolutely no sense to me. -
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Re: You Might Try an MMA Gym
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 12:56 AMI got that comment, it isn't a matter of them being butch with tattoos which i don't have a problem with, i have had lovers that a quiet, intelligent spend there spare time in a book or a computer and i have had lovers that are covered in tats neither are what the problem or the question relates to....
Are you telling me in order to be able to just have uncomplicated sex, i need to find someone with tattoos and is butch.....i don't think so....i am just saying that there has been a change..... and as it happens the male that asked me for sex and then ran when i said yes is a tattooed, leather wearing, snake owning, body pierced house painter.....so go figure.....
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Re: You Might Try an MMA Gym
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 6:28 AMI think somebody who is actively physical and has no trouble displaying stereotypically masculine traits may be more likely to give a lady some uncomplicated rollicking if asked. I think the being OK with tattoos is just because that sort of man often carries that sort of physical modification either to better display a body he's worked so hard on or as a symbol of dedication NOT because all men who have tattoos and wear leather are confident manly-men that will be comfy with simply physicality. -
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Re: You Might Try an MMA Gym
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 10:52 PMYes, Ms. M. You got it exactly. And fighters are almost *always* hungry, so the more appetites someone can fulfill, the more devotion they engender. Also, fighters are used to risking things and losing and just trying something else. Physical courage (not recklessness) almost always translates into courage of other sorts, and physicality makes us more alive. They may not keep her but they will almost always be willing to "go a few rounds."
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Re: You Might Try an MMA Gym
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 8:57 AMI have never actually heard of a woman that wanted to just get laid having any problem, especially when she's assertive about it. Maybe you'll just have to visit the US. I also had a friend that spent some time in Australia and also had no problem being bedded... could it be something other than what you posited? -
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Re: You Might Try an MMA Gym
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 9:29 AMNo it is definitely what i posted and it isn't just happening to me either.... -
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Re: You Might Try an MMA Gym
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 9:38 AMMaybe you are looking in the wrong places.
I know if you put an ad on Craiglist you'd probably have a parade of penis photos from aspiring applicants that would go to the moon and back in your inbox.
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Re: You Might Try an MMA Gym
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 1:24 PMi resisted responding to this in either tribe until now... because i found your original assertion that if a man isn't into having sex with you, he must be like a girl, to be offensive to both men and women.
the problem here, it seems to me, is that you are trying to make a wide sociological trend out of you and your girlfriend having a guy or two turn you down for sex. a handful of people is not really statistically significant in a world of billions, but i think many people try to squeeze their personal situation into some world view... which is of course, a dead end. it's not about "men" as a whole, it's about a couple of specific guys. trying to make that into some indictment of a gender, or to draw some vast conclusions from that is silly.
the truth is that when you find a repeating situation in your life, it's not that it is happening everywhere, it's that you are continuing to draw certain kinds of people and situations to you. so the place to look is at what signals you send out, and what expectations you have, and to shift those. perhaps you are objectifying men and they don't like that. or you are not engaging with them in the way they want. or you are forgetting that even if you want sex with them, that doesn't mean they want it with you. or maybe they're just not as easy as you assume.
the kind of men i think you want are out there, at least here in the states... men who are lusty hot lovers who can't get enough, and who are mature enough and reliable enough to maintain long-term no-strings relationships with do indeed exist. i know a few of them personally, thank god ;^) -
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Re: You Might Try an MMA Gym
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 5:53 PMi wish you wouldnt resist, o voice of reason. ; )
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Re: You Might Try an MMA Gym
Sun, May 11, 2008 - 11:04 AMThose are very good points, very well put.
For instance, if you have the mindset that all men are "shaking in their boots" and so forth, then you're probably not in a positive space to be able to recognize and be receptive to some of the more subtle good things that the universe may be hanging out there for you to pluck like an apple on a tree.
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Re: You Might Try an MMA Gym
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 2:34 PMI said POSITED, not POSTED, indicating that your theory may be off for why it is you're not getting laid. My friend who was in Australia is one of the most assertive, driven and unapologetic about who she is women you will ever want to meet. Yes, she scares some men, but there are others just lining up... I can say the same for myself. -
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Re: You Might Try an MMA Gym
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 2:51 PMMuse,
Maybe you are looking at the wrong age range.
Younger guys still do what you seek.
Most guys around your age have been run through the ringer for doing what you are seeking, so have lightened up with age.
There are a few out there still, but you typically need to hit dive bars, sexual events, adult motels with a community area, etc. to find them.
Keep plugging and you shall find success.
Betcha......can
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Re: QUESTION: ARE MEN AFRAID OF WOMEN WHO KNOW WHAT THEY WANT (especially in regards to sex) ?
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 4:28 PMI have no problem with Women asking for what they want... in fact:
There are but 2 rules to Life and Love:
1st. Everyone has the Privilege to ask for whatever they want.
2nd. Everyone has the Right to say No. -
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Re: QUESTION: ARE MEN AFRAID OF WOMEN WHO KNOW WHAT THEY WANT (especially in regards to sex) ?
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 10:42 PMI'll agree with you up to a point. When I ask "Take your hands off me" a person had bloody well say "Yes." Your rights end at my skin. -
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Re: QUESTION: ARE MEN AFRAID OF WOMEN WHO KNOW WHAT THEY WANT (especially in regards to sex) ?
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 6:37 PM<I'll agree with you up to a point. When I ask "Take your hands off me" a person had bloody well say "Yes." Your rights end at my skin.>
Yup. And "Take your hands off me" is not a request. You'd better get your hands off me or I'll take them off for you.
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