Are Women Getting Better These Days?

topic posted Thu, May 14, 2009 - 6:02 PM by  Poontangle♂♥♀
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Are Women Getting Better?: Are they making it easier to engage with men - find the meeting of heart and mind, emotions, sex-drive and intellectual stimulation between men and women? Are they less driven by stereo-types of the different roles of men in the office, and the marriage bed?

There is no debate as to whether women have gone through a revolution in sexuality the past few decades. Assuming women are much more in tune with their sexuality today, do you feel they communicate that new attitude effectively? Is theirs a clear message of the total-self, including the sexual-self?
posted by:
Poontangle♂♥♀
Hawaii
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  • Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

    Thu, May 14, 2009 - 8:05 PM
    "Are Women Getting Better?"

    No.

    "Are they making it easier to engage with men"

    HELL no. American/Western society is the most TOXIC and legally punitive place to romantically engage with any woman. Sadly, many fellow young men growing up in this culture are raised believing it's natural for women to regard men as potential rapists and 'guilty until proven innocent' of malevolent intentions.

    "Are they less driven by stereo-types of the different roles of men in the office, and the marriage bed?"

    Less driven, but just as willing to use these stereotypes to their advantage while completely embracing the shawl of equality.

    "Assuming women are much more in tune with their sexuality today, do you feel they communicate that new attitude effectively?"

    Can't answer that. I'd say it's a very flawed assumption.

    ~ Kole
  • Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

    Thu, May 14, 2009 - 11:46 PM
    i think that kole's answer is a good example of how we each have our own reality. he lives in a world where he thinks that women are manipulative and the women he knows think men are rapists. i'm not sure where that world is or what his community is... but that is like another planet from the people in my social circles.

    in my circles (which include some very large groups of people who have conscious connections, i'm talking about thousands of people), men and women both are aware, interested in having a great experience of life, and are not only open to, but actively explore new paradigms of social structure.

    as a 55-year-old woman who has a perspective of the older generation, but who is also very tapped into youth culture as well, i must say i find questions like "are women getting better" or ashleigh's "are men getting better" to be a little weird. better than what?

    obviously, american society (which is what we're talking about, right?) has gone through major transitions in the past century. my grandmother would likely never have engaged sexually with anyone other than my grandfather, my mother had the option after divorce, though i don't think she ever did. i, on the other hand, have been able to have interesting, complex and very out-of-the-box relationships in my years after marriage. and my daughter has been monogamous with her partner for 13 years.

    and... that's just a few people in a huge population. women are 51% of the population after all. stereotyping 51% of the population seems sort of futile, don't you think?

    are there women who fit stereotypes? sure, i see them on reality shows so i know they exist. i caught that "housewives of new york" show once and was aghast. i mean, if you were a martian and you landed here and saw them as your first earthlings, you'd think they represent "women" -- but they really just represent spoiled selfish rich new york women of a particular social circle. i surely wouldn't be surprised if some of those selfish creatures were not in tune with their sexuality other than as a commodity.

    but if you were a martian, and you came into the circles of people i know, you'd think women *and* men were intelligent, loving, open, caring, emotional, supportive, adventurous, creative and remarkable human beings who aren't shy in the least about integrating their sexual nature into their lives.

    there is no standard. stereotypes don't work. and kole, you really ought to try to find some different circles of people, because those people you hang out with sound pretty awful. really, there are many evolved, intelligent and openminded people out there. you just have to seek them out, but when you find them, it changes your entire experience of the world.
    • Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

      Fri, May 15, 2009 - 10:07 AM
      Are Women Getting Better?: Are they making it easier to engage with men

      Why would getting better and making it easier be the same thing?

      School gets harder and better as I go along.
      Relationship ( in my life) get more complicated and better as time goes on.
      I think it gets more difficult to engage with someone the more educated, the bigger their consciousness, the larger their ambitions.( men and women) But I find that better. I like a challenge. If I was looking for someone easy , I would have been married a long time ago. Lots of men do difficult things and feel rewarded by it.
      • Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

        Fri, May 15, 2009 - 10:11 AM
        Also in my Question : Are men getting better, I didn't mention sex at all. I figure that is an individual thing. Some people are better at sex than others.
        In This thread sex was mentioned four times.
        Our questions have to more to do with us and where we are than anything, I wonder if you would agree Poontangle. And you mentioned sex four times in one question and I didn't mention it at all in mine.
        • Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

          Fri, May 15, 2009 - 10:55 AM
          Plus, I have concluded that Men are getting better.( that may have something to do with me too) It's going up exponentially in my life. I can't wait to meet the next great guy.

          You know they say that in psychology, that one good relationship makes the difference. Actuall studies show that patients in a mental ward needed one good solid relationship with a person ( it could be a parent, doctor or janitor, it didn't matter who the person was) to predict if they would recover from their mental illenss.
          I wonder if that's how it works in general. Maybe Poontangle you need just one solid good relationship with a women ( not necesarrily romantic) to believe in women. It has helped me to look around at the men in my life that are there to help me move, would be there if I was stranded on the side of the road, men who raised me, teachers, therapists, nephews, etc... What I found is that they are all over. I have always had good men in my life there for me, I just forgot for a minute after this last break up. ( he wasn't there for me , but he's the exception not the rule).
        • Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

          Fri, May 15, 2009 - 12:14 PM
          >"you mentioned sex four times in one question and I didn't mention it at all in mine. "

          Yes, that IS very notable. Why do you think the difference? lol But re-read your post and notice what you do dwell on.

          I think the "sex revolution" has changed the consciousness of women more than anything, and SEX would certainly be a huge factor in how they are changing in relating to men. Is bringing the conversation back to SEX a problem?

          "Better at sex than others" I hope I can assume you are talking about relating and expressing themselves, and general contentment with sexlife. I am not really speaking of how easy it is to "hook up" with them, though it may sound so. It is more about relating genuinely, without filtering/censoring so much you have no real communication.

          But when I ask if the opposite sex is getting better for the other, sex is at the base because I think a persons sexual self motivates much more than I think you are giving credit for, especially in how they relate to the opposite sex. So many of the "nice things" you see in a man or his actions stem from sexual motives, no matter how mild. If a guy does something because it makes him feel manly, that is sexual motivation, even if he is not in pursuit of you as a sex partner.
          • Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

            Fri, May 15, 2009 - 12:53 PM
            I see no problem with bringing sex into the discussion. Women's sexual evolution has been key to their empowerment. Look at how many more women have an expectation of pleasure compared to their mothers and grandmothers. The Vagina Monologues pointed out some of these issues- how many women never even looked at their genitalia, touched it or had any expectation that sex could feel good. Sadly, some people seem to focus on predatory women, which i doubt are the majority. Many more women have no clue as to their own sexuality and don't explore it enough to ever use it as a tool. More and more, women feel comfortable discussing their sexuality and embracing it. This is HUGE in terms of self-image and the ability to be emotionally intimate with a partner.
            • Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

              Fri, May 15, 2009 - 1:02 PM
              you know I agree. And you make a good point that womens' "sex revolution" is still trickling down to a LOT of women.... and men.
              I'm also reflecting on what Ashleigh is trying to say. I don't want to miss her point in favor of clarifying mine.
        • Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

          Fri, May 15, 2009 - 1:16 PM
          >"Our questions have to more to do with us and where we are than anything, I wonder if you would agree Poontangle. And you mentioned sex four times in one question and I didn't mention it at all in mine."

          lol.. well perhaps that means you're getting as much sex as you want and I certainly am not. But I would have to wonder if anyone gets as much as they desire to. I have no problem SAYING I am not getting nearly as much sex as I desire. How about you? =)
          • Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

            Fri, May 15, 2009 - 3:13 PM
            I see no problem with bringing sex into the discussion either. Sex is huge component in a great relationship with me. I might have just thought it was a given so I didn't mention it in my thread.
            Poontangle, believe me I am not getting as much sex as I'd like to.
            The difference may be that I have noticed that I can get sex with lots of people and I'm still not satisfied. I really am a fan of quanity of sex. But if there's quantity and little quality, I feel worse than if there's none at all. And I have to deal with the possible consequences of even bad sex.

            I'm sure I dwell on on the stuff I care about : emotional connection, ability to talk authentically, intelligence. That's where my life and my search is focused right now.
            • Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

              Fri, May 15, 2009 - 3:40 PM
              Poontangle I am in grad school for psychology, I had copious amounts of frued and sex motivating everything. I totally agree.
              I also feel it. I feel sexual energy in myself and others just being near people. That subject really interests me. Because it's not just to procreate , if that were just it men who did not want children ever would stop being so sexy. I think there's an evolutional, spiritual component ( I'm often getting accused of doing research for a thesis, if I were this may be where I start) to sexiness. I know I am attracted to people whose qualities I need to appropriate for my own. I need more patience, committment, kindness, I am attracted to people with those qualities. I also love men because there is a way it is the opposite of me, how I do things. There's this forward movement ( women have it too) , this let's get on with things Vioe de vie I really like ( in some men) . Sexual attraction has a real spiritual element for me, or at least it's very connected.
              • Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

                Fri, May 15, 2009 - 3:45 PM
                In psychology we call that Affectation. All that "Personality " we pile on our real selves is actually a defense mechanism against being hurt. But we get hurt anyway because we didn't risk letting others see our real selves .
                Dumb women don't intimiate dumb men, so they can date them without him being scared off. Smart women play dumb all the time .
                We all have some affectation to a degree but some way more than others. People on TV must do it a lot, our culture is way into the affect and not enough into authenticity .
              • Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

                Sat, May 16, 2009 - 10:34 AM
                As far as Freud... he did make a contribution as the sub-conscious sex motivations and thought-life of men... and dream symbolism. But, his sexist perspective were behind his extensively developed red herrings of penis envy (having to conveniently deny the potency of the female clitoris), which is more commonly a male complex, and other stifling female sexuality theories. Freud is a nut case in his own right too.
            • Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

              Fri, May 15, 2009 - 4:00 PM
              The difference may be....

              that some people see sex as limited to intimate relationship.. and others, like myself, see it as a very present energy in ALL hetero -gender relationships. So, it is not so much about quality vs quantity, because it is not about the intimate "sex act" exclusively. Perhaps I just want to be able to say "Jeez! you look so good I just wanna fuck like right now!" and not have someone feel that is a threat or proposition, or directive to "Bend over... now!". Or, "Only an ass-hole" would say such a thing, even when that's what they are thinking. Especially if they say I am causing problems for myself because I don't disclose feelings because of hangups I am responsible for.
              • Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

                Fri, May 15, 2009 - 4:09 PM
                "see it as a very present energy in ALL hetero -gender relationships. " It may be present in some of your homo-gendered relationships too.

                Jeez! you look so good I just wanna fuck like right now!" You can say whatever you want, you don't have control over how someone feels about it though. Doesn't it depend on the women herself. If I heard that from my boyfriend I would be thrilled. If I heard it from someone I wanted to have sex with I'd be thrilled. If I heard it from someone I was not at all interested in , it would depend on the context. I'm cool with being told I look fuckable though in general. It's like telling me I look like I've lost weight. But it depends on who you say these things to though. I don't suggest saying it to my mom, or married women, that could get you in trouble quick. Come on you can be diserning a bit right?
                • Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

                  Sat, May 16, 2009 - 10:28 AM
                  lol.. that was an exaggeration, but I later considered that to say simply, "You have great legs, that's all." still puts you in the perv house, with some women. And, I/we did get a bit too out on the sex feelings road. It's just a facet, though a large one. I think Firemermaid once said that sex is like 10% of your total life when you're getting enough with the right person...... but 90% when you ain't.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

                    Sat, May 16, 2009 - 10:42 AM
                    >"to say simply, "You have great legs, that's all.""

                    But still thinking "Jeez, I wanna fuck you like right now!".. which is probably why we still get thrown in the perv house. Female telepathy! lol
    • Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

      Fri, May 15, 2009 - 3:32 PM
      >"are there women who fit stereotypes? sure, i see them on reality shows so i know they exist."

      There is a hilarious element to that statement... you know they exist... because they are on reality shows. But I know what you mean. Probably the most still perpetuated stereo-types are

      The "Dumb" Blonde
      The Gold-digger
      The "Fridged Iceberg"
      The "Chatty-Kathy"

      Like any stereo-type, people get swiftly grouped into them based on some of the slightest evidences, more about the observer's mind-set, than the subjects essence.
      • Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

        Fri, May 15, 2009 - 3:42 PM
        i see the humor -- but honestly, many reality shows are actually very real. i know a couple of folks who were on them, and the live person is very close to the reality-show persona.

        you can't make that shit up. hell, did you see clips of joan rivers racist classist hateful tirades on the apprentice show? she's just like the women on the new york housewives. yep, there are people who fit the stereotypes.

        but there are more who don't. trying to fit billions of people into a few small boxes is the work of fools.
  • Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

    Sat, May 16, 2009 - 10:00 AM
    Wasn't sure if I was going to chime in since I have a great relationship with my woman so my answer would probably be biased. However I was wondering with so many more women gravitating to the right, tuning in to FOX TV and surrendering to an angry white male god just how that dovetails into womens sexuality?
  • Re: Are Women Getting Better These Days?

    Sat, May 16, 2009 - 10:23 AM
    my answer is

    As far as generally, the jury is still out as I see a lot of old politics still voiced by women I am amazed to hear it from, but I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge there are some awesome women in the world. These women here on tribe too! There always have been some women that "get it", and relate to men that way. And the consciousness has been making a kind of mass shift. Their message is at least clear and abundant enough to know they are out there. That voice was not so present before. They just don't reveal themselves in my small world often... or my head is stuck on something else. ??? And so, I need to circulate and.... be expecting to meet them.

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