Men afraid of women

topic posted Thu, September 28, 2006 - 5:17 PM by  Christine
Hi ! I'm new here and my question is: Why are men afraid of women?
posted by:
  • when? where? who? in what way? in response to what?

    I need more to go on than that please ;)

    I've been around the block a number of times, had my share of sane cool women, psyco bitches from hell, menopausal roller coasters and few other types & I can't remember ever being scared of one then again I do sleep with a gun under my pillow so perhaps that is why ;)
    • Unsu...
      Cool! Glad to know I'm not the only person in the world with a gun under their pillow...

      • no shit.
        • Wow, a lot of varied answers. Thanks. - Well, what brought this up was something I read in a book by Paulo Coelho. Apparently everything wrong in the world has to do with our sexuality, well the idea is that it starts there. Anyway, one of the lines in the book expresses the thought that fundamentally men are afraid of women. So I put it out there to see what kind of response this would get.
          Regarding my own personal experience, afraid is how I explain the non-talking or non-involvement of some (o.k. many) men when something is going wrong or is confusing in an interaction or a relationship. For instance, say someone shows interest in you and is dropping many broad hints, such as call me for coffee or whatever. You do. You also know they are very busy because they hold down 2 jobs and see their two kids on alternate week-ends, they say they'll get back to you on the week-end at a mutual social venue that you both go to, to let you know when a good time to meet would be ( I know my sentence is grammatically incorrect) uhm, and when the week-end comes they greet you, they are nice to you but they don't bring up the potential "date". No, I don't bring it up either because I don't want to put pressure. My point is the guy knows that there is an expectation on my part, so whether he wants to do something or not, or has changed his mind, why doesn't he just clarify the situation? Then things become akward after when you run in to each other right? (in this case in won't be that bad because I wasn't overly attracted) So, I find that if women want an answer to something they have to drag it out of the guy, then we are accused of beings nags. Why don't guys bring up , or initiate the conversation regarding a situation that is uncomfortable? No, they all do the same thing, bury their heads in the sand and leave you hanging. And that is where I assume and wonder why men are afraid of women. Incidentally I don't nag, so he (hypothetical guy) says nothing, I say nothing, and nothing happens.
          • If I understood correctly, it seems you've made your interest clear, so it could be anything, including any of the following:

            1 - he's too shy
            2 - he's too busy and doesn't want to start something, or doesn't want to date because of his kids (some parents don't want their kids meeting the people they date until it's settled into a really stable relationship - if even then.)
            3 - he just may not be that into you.
            4 - he may think you are not into him. (You may think you've made your interest clear, but some men are exceedingly dense about that stuff.)

            If you are really interested , go ahead and call him and ask him if he'd like to do something. It's a drag to have to do all the heavy lifting yourself, but go for it, if you really want to.
          • Hmm... I have two (or are they three?) thoughts about this.

            Guys are afraid of rejection. Asking a woman out feels risky to most men, makes them nervous & brings up fear. At the core of it is the desire for love, ballanced by a desire to avoid the heartbreak of rejection. But that heartbreak is the entry fee.

            Most guys aren't tuned into all the subtle communications that women are making. We require direct talk. You may think he knows you are romantically interested in him. I'm betting he doesn't know, or at most isn't sure. It can be very confusing for men -- women will hang out with you, go to dinner, flirt, and then be offended when you try to kiss them. He's looking for signs that you are interested. Un-subtle signs.

            Most guys don't like all that intense emotional stuff. We're not wired to deal with it well -- it causes anxiety, fear, and a feeling of overwhelm. It pushes us into fight-or-flight response. If flight doesn't work and you keep pushing, you'll get a fight, but you won't get a resolution to your issue. So depending on how emotionally volatile the woman is, we withdraw when the sparks start flying, and we avoid bringing up things that might cause sparks. Give us our space and come back to it when things are calmer.

            Another thing about dating -- women aren't interested in the guys who want them. I still haven't figured out why, but there it is. "There's nothing sexier than a man who doesn't want to get laid." is one of my favorite quotes. Eventually guys learn that if they come on too directly, women back away. The way you seduce a woman is you spark a little interest with a bit of sexy energy, then you back away. If she's interested, she'll come toward you and fill the vaccuum. Rinse and repeat, upping the intensity as you go. It's working on you, no? Whether he knows what he's doing or not, he's got you thinking about him and wanting him. The ironic thing for men is -- if you step right into that gap at the wrong time, you snuff the flame & she's gone.

            I think women may have a relationship to sexual intensity similar to a man's relationship to emotional intensity. Too much too fast causes overload and makes the other person back away. Most women would prefer immediate emotional intensity, and most men would prefer immediate sexual intensity. We manage to meet somewhere in the middle.

            Oh -- what else? He's absolutely attracted to you. He would not be asking you to coffee if he wasn't.
            • "Another thing about dating -- women aren't interested in the guys who want them. I still haven't figured out why, but there it is. "There's nothing sexier than a man who doesn't want to get laid."

              No, not true, It's just who is asking. I'm interested in so few men. But the right man, I want him all the time.

              "Most women would prefer immediate emotional intensity, and most men would prefer immediate sexual intensity. We manage to meet somewhere in the middle. "

              True, I'm hoping for both

              Oh -- what else? He's absolutely attracted to you. He would not be asking you to coffee if he wasn'
              • S.A. you have some good points, however, regarding no 4. let me

                say that when he was talking about being a good cook I said "when

                are you going to invite me over for supper? - I'll bring the

                wine". When he said call me if you want to go for coffee, I did.

                I am the one who got him on the dance floor last week. Actually

                we are pretty much on an even keel on that. But I would say

                that's pretty forward. But then Shams brings up the same thing,

                specifically that "he may not be sure".Perhaps I am guilty of

                this, because the truth is "I" am not sure. I may have been

                sending out those vibes even though I was taking action. I won't

                go after him because as I said "I was not overly attracted", I

                wanted to try something different from the usual bastards I'm

                attracted to ;) Besides what would I say next "Say, why didn't

                you get back to me about the "date"like you said you would,

                hunh?" I'd just sound like a stalker.

                I think women may have a relationship to sexual intensity similar to a man's relationship to emotional intensity
                Shams, that is quite an astute observation. I'm not sure how much it applies to me, but it makes sense.

                In my opinion and I do mean to generalize:

                I find that when men do something that they know is wrong (with regards to women)

                they don't offer a reason or an appology (in my case and in my

                eyes the guy has to know that not getting back to me is wrong or

                at least rude). They just clam up /walk away/ avoid etc. This is

                what is the most frustrating to women (and why a few women become

                psycho, or write to men on tribe to figure things out). I believe

                that men think it is better not to say anything because they

                don't want to hurt women, but that is exactly what hurts us the

                most. I think most of us can deal with the truth or semi-truth,

                but we can't deal with not knowing. That is why some women go

                after the guy or are enraged, because they let enough time go by

                to get an explanation, and when that doesn't happen, it takes all

                their anger to be able to confront the guy. For women; to be left

                hanging or to go after someone for an explanation is humiliating,

                it smacks of desperation.

                My thought here is that men don't talk (at the right time anyway)

                because they either fear hurting women or are afraid they will

                lose them. But not addressing their crummy behaviour is exactly

                what produces both results.

                Zen: it is true that my situation is more in tune with the beginning interactions or first stages of trying to make something happen, than it is in a more established relationship.

                >What things in particular, Christine, do you feel that men leave women in the dark about? The status of the relationship? Where they think it's going? We men need a little more to work with here... < You are so dead on about that one. If you read the above you'll get an idea about my situation ( I know all women don't feel the same as I do, but I have a hell of a lot of friends and acquaintances that do!)

                >There's nothing sexier than a man who doesn't want to get laid."

                No, not true, It's just who is asking. I'm interested in so few men. But the right man, I want him all the time. <

                I second that.
                • Unsu...
                  It sounds like you're both sending each other confusing signals. You're interested in him, but you're not and same thing for him.

                  "For women; to be left hanging or to go after someone for an explanation is humiliating, it smacks of desperation. My thought here is that men don't talk (at the right time anyway) because they either fear hurting women or are afraid they will lose them. But not addressing their crummy behaviour is exactly what produces both results. "

                  I totally agree. A person is responsible for both their actions or non-actions. Unfortunately, my experience has been that both sexes do this. I would rather just walk away than seem to be desparate for an explanation or answer from a woman as to why they haven't gotten back to me. It's a very frustrating experience for anyone. It's very rude. I would rather be told up front that a woman is not interested in me rather than be given excuses as to why she never got back to me.

                  All I can say is that not all men, nor women, are like that. Some of us ask lots of questions. All the questions I listed are questions that I would be asking of a woman if I was in the same situation as I value honesty and openness highly. If I was the guy you're referring to, not bringing up the "potential" date would eat at me and I can't take that. Not in my nature at all.

                  Thanks for the insightful answer. Appreciate it.
          • Oh, the stories I've seen on my dating tribe! When a guy dumps a gal via email, or text message, when they were on perfectly good terms, he's afraid of SOMETHING. So the guys who take the coward's way out? Yeah, that's fear, and possibly a touch of A-holeness too, in some cases. It seems to me if you're going to break up with and hurt someone, whatever gender you are, have the balls (figuratively speaking) to do it to their face.

            So, I'll add, why are so many men "afraid" of seeing a woman genuinely upset, crying, what have you?
            • Unsu...
              well said =]
              • >So, I'll add, why are so many men "afraid" of seeing a woman genuinely upset, crying, what have you?<

                Who said we're upset?

                That's the myth. Some of us just want to know. Sure, we might argue a bit, but that's just to have a say, then it's so long.

                I'm really trying not to drag this thing on, but apart from some very constructive, helpfull and flattering answers, I'm not sure that I've gotten to the root of what I'm trying to say.

                So I think Dravengal, you have come the closest to what I'm trying to express, when you ask why men are cowards? (sorry guys on this tribe, I know you guys aren't ) -but that's basically it, why don't men ever freaking address a difficult issue re: men/women (before the women does). Please don't give me the "maybe he doesn't know" business, he know plenty.
                • Ahhhh.... you're talking about the "Emotional housework".... what some sociologists call "the invisible third shift".

                  Watch it tho' please, w/ those words like "Ever" & "never" tho'- nothing is ALWAYS a certain way. I do know men who are exceptions to that rule ('cause they conciously decided they wanted to be) & some women that are Queens of Denial. This varies a lot w/ culture, even ethnicity.

                  However, given the majority.... Like most things, I think it's a combo of nature & nurture. In fact, I know it is. Just from what I know of neuro biology, there's clear evidence that which we learn, what we believe, & that which is constantly reinforced, actually changes our neuro pathways, & our responses. That's how learning, & free will work. Cultures have assigned different roles for men & women, w/ lots of reasons like survival, power dynamics, economics, biology, etc.

                  Nature, also has a hand (tho' once again- I'm pointing out that we're people, not friggin' fruitflies- & are capable of enormous growth) in that the majority of male & female brains seem to process some info differently from birth- & we women are generally more skilled in reading voices, gestures & faces from infancy. There are lots of exceptions. But I'm talkin' majority, at the moment.

                  From what I experience, read & hear, this freaks a lot of men out- they feel at a disadvantage, & clam up &/or ignore us. When women feel this, & get frustrated, we're often called nags. A nag is usually just someone that doesn't feel she's being heard, & responded to. A nag isn't always right, but they are just usually trying for interaction.
                  It's harder for a lot of guys, who (again because of both nature AND nuture) to think laterally, ie, co-operatively. Many men tend towards the hierarchal ways of thinking- someone's gotta be 'on top'. Many can see what we think of as discussion, & nego tiation, as a challenge to their competance- even power.
                  Most guys also want to believe they're making us happy- & don't want that lovely illusion cluttered up w/ confusing reality, lol. Virgina Woolf, in "A Room of One's Own" wrote about the how hard it can be for many men to see the women in their lives as whole, separate beings, w/ a life apart from the men & children in our lives. She wrote about the frustration, of being seen by men essentally as mirrors for themselves. Things in our culture have changed some since she wrote, but not near completely- lasting change is slow.

                  You want a clear, relatively harmless, yet telling current pop-culture example? How come any movie in which men aren't the main protaganists, which tells a woman's (or even human) story & any woman featured is not defined mainly in relation to the men in the film- is called "a chick flick?" Or at best, a "date movie"? Assuming that men aren't interested in stories that don't feature men as the main character. (Which is sure not completely true, anyway. I know men that don't work that way- & they're not all gay). By the way, films that feature a young woman dressed & acting mainly as a gaming-type character, & blowing shit up don't count- not that some of those films aren't kinda fun. But they have even less to do w/ real humans than a Hollywood romance comedy.

                  I can't give you any pat instant answers here. You REALLY wanna explore this stuff? Go read some Carl Jung- paying special attention to stuff about the anima & animus. Read history- including as much as you can on the history of private life, & women's roles. And take responsibility for not only speaking up, but learning to do so in the most effective & peaceful ways possible. Change isn't easy, or quick. But it happens. I'm adamant about this kind of growth- because unless it happens pretty universally, I believe we will continue the path of more & more war, more & more enviromental devistation, & more suffering for all, w/ women & children the first to suffer the great brunt of violence, sexual slavery, & scarceties. This is one of those root dysfunctions, that either gets fixed, or we continue to mess up.

                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Oh- other tools I can't reccomend highly enough-

                    Marshall Rosenberg's techniques for Non-Violent Communication (used by many mediators)

                    Really, really straight-forward, workable techniques for better communication. You want a better chance at being heard? Wanna be a better listener? Powerful. life-changing, paradigm shifting stuff- even if it seems a little Mr. Rodgers at first.

                    Riane Eisler's books- "The Chalice & the Blade", "The Partnership Way", & "Sacred Sex".

                    Where we've come from, how we got here, roadmaps for a sustainable, more peaceful future. The last book has a lot about Bonobos- which researchers dubbed the "Tantric Chimps"- ( they're a sub-spieces) our closest genetic relatives.
                • I didn't mean anyone on this Tribe was upset. I just want to know why some men are cowards when breaking up with women because they are "afraid" to see them cry.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    I think you just answered your own question.

                    ~ Kole
                    • My question is WHY they're afraid to see them cry. We go into relationships knowing there's both the risk of being hurt and of hurting someone, it's a fact of life, so the possibility is always there.

                      Why does a women's (genuine) crying scare men?
                      • "My question is WHY they're afraid to see them cry. ...
                        Why does a women's (genuine) crying scare men?"
                        - - - - - >

                        Wellll, you probably don't experience somebody crying because of something you did (like breaking up with them, as per your example), but ...

                        Try and imagine yourself as a guy delivering the news your breaking up with a woman. Now imagine the woman crying.
                        What's it like for you?

                        I don't know if I would say men are "afraid" of it, but you feel responsible for that hurt and there's not much you can do about it.
                        • It's been a long time since I broke up with someone, so can't really say I feared seeing them cry. Upset maybe.

                          So, you concur that the man is avoiding it, if not for fear, because it makes them uncomfortable. So their logic would be "if I don't have to see it, they're not going through it" and can pretend they're not hurting a woman worse by dumping her via email or text message (I can't believe people actually do that!), without giving her the respect of doing it face to face? Naive/idealisitc as I am, I'd say to either gender, you shouldn't get involved with someone, if you can't face hurting them, because it will happen, sometime, even if it's not breaking up with them. No sane human likes hurting someone, but it's a fact of life. But it often helps a lot more when the person does it in a way that shows they care enough to actually be there.
                          • Is using the telephone acceptable?
                            • That's a matter of opinion, I'd say face to face is always best, but person to person over the phone is certainly better then sending a text or email message. That's just scuzzy.

                              Pretending you're not and not dealing with the fact you're hurting someone by dumping them are cut from the same cloth, they're both cowardly, denial, and lack of decency.
                          • "So their logic would be "if I don't have to see it, they're not going through it" and can pretend they're not hurting a woman worse by dumping her via email or text message"

                            They don't have to pretend anything; they just don't have to deal with it.

                            ~ Kole
  • Off the top of my head, I don't think that men fear women.

    We misunderstand them a lot of the time.
    A few of us are deferential to them in certain situations. Mostly because of how we were raised.
    Definitely see some mystery or mystique perhaps.
    Perhaps some awe of motherhood.

    But fear...Like actual fright?

  • Well, if she's holding a hatchet that could be a clue.........
    • Excellent point! (Near-miss pun)

      Hatchets come in many forms ~

      Christine said she thinks of the tendency of men to clam up when things go wrong as 'men being afraid of women'...

      It reminds me that the only times that I've been accused of being guarded or uncommunicative have been when someone was angry and demanding explanations, justifications, etc., like a psychotic person demanding an instantaneous all-access pass to your psyche.

      This isn't what Christine was talking about, I realize; it's just a thought that popped up in association with alleged male non-communication and hatchets.
  • W
    offline 20
    I don't think men are afraid of women. I think a lot of men are afraid of commitment to women because so many change after the wedding is all done.
    • Afraid of WHAT? Mmmfffppphh!
      - 'scuse me, - anyone have a kleenex? (I think I snotted on my keyboard over this one..)

      Nowwww.... - I've had knives thrown at me, a hammer, been hit with my own car and put on crutches, almost arrested for no reason, blackmailed, cut loose, met the chick's husband and her boyfriend (at the same time in my own bedroom @ 5 AM.. ), been socked with bills, screwed over, screwed around on, embarrassed in public, - and I've had my children killed off against my wishes. But afraid? Not a chance. At least not since I was 22 or so.. I've come to the conclusion that anyone who will attempt to control someone else's life should be handled tit-for-tat, - an' that's that. It's the Golden Rule out here in the cold, cruel world. And One-f, - m'dude, - it's called a pre-nup. She goes and changes on you after the rings have been forged, (what I call the ol' "bait-and-switch") - she's out the door... Nothing there to be afraid of.

      • Unsu...
        <<and I've had my children killed off against my wishes.>>

        WHAT? you mean literally killed? if thats the case im sorry for your loss. but that statement just stopped me in my tracks. would any parent wish for their children to be killed? think you might have to explain a little Cowboy
        • Sorry there Jeff.. - aborted, - once without me knowing about it and then telling me after the fact, - and another simply going ahead and aborting even after I had made my wishes and pledge of support well known... (both had been longer-term dating situations, - not one-nighters)

          Funny how that works tho ain't it? - if a guy says yes, and the gal says no, - it's no, - she has all the power and decision-wielding ability. And if the gal says yes but the guy says no, - he ends up getting drug into court for child support even though his wishes weren't considered in the 1st place. Sure seems kinda one-sided to moi. Maybe it's just me...
          • Unsu...
            thanks for that cowboy. and again, i am really sorry for you loss.
            • Unsu...
              Yeah the abortion thing is a tricky one thats for sure - i suppose women feel they have the ultimate word because they have to bear the child for 9 months. However, it should be equal with the man and the woman of course...

              What shocks me here - is that some of you folks have guns under yer pillows! Guns just arent a fact of life here in the UK (well,, not the majority). its fascinating and strange!

              As for men being scared of women - i dont think so, i think theyre scared of rejection and or commitment. But then many people are, not just men.
          • Well, actually, if the guy says "No" there is paperwork you can file, so long as it is done BEFORE the actual birth, that officially cleanses you of financial responsibility for the child. It's rather complicated and involved, and damn near nobody will tell you about it if you don't know it exists, but it can be done in most states. The problem is that most guys just think they're screwed if the girl gets knocked up and decides to keep it so they never ask what their legal options are.
      • W
        offline 20
        How does one get a pre nup that says we'll have sex at least 5 times a week and she'll cook quality meals every day? Keeping her from marrying me for money is easy .. especially since I don't have any. Keeping her from turning stone cold is quite another.
        • >What shocks me here - is that some of you folks have guns under yer pillows! Guns just arent a fact of life here in the UK (well,, not the majority).< Same for me in Canada.

          Anyway my main theme is that I find men tend to leave women in the dark about things that need clarification and my conclusion was that they are afraid of something. But what? and why?
          • <<>What shocks me here - is that some of you folks have guns under yer pillows! Guns just arent a fact of life here in the UK (well,, not the majority).< Same for me in Canada. >>

            True, the gun laws in the UK and Canada are horrible, worse than those here in CA and they are miserable here. Its one reason that has always kept me from moving home.

            Having one under my pillow has been a fact of life since I turned 21 & bought my first. It of course gets moved when I have company over ;)
            • LOL Simon!

              Christine and Em... - well... - I can understand the idealogical concept of losing all the guns. That would be bliss and I'd vote for it. But they would ALL need to be removed, all the criminals' guns, all the military and the police and everyone else's. The entire worlds weaponry, and ALL at once. Not gonna happen. I'm not a pillow-stasher, - but there's something around. Just makes sense, when anyone who would really want a gun who might break in some night could get one, - even where you are, illegally. Should you have naught but a baseball bat or a golf club with which to defend house, home, kiddies and self? And with all the bleeding lawyers we have around all fired up and rarin' to sue, the breaker seems to have more rights than the homeowner / defendee these years. Someone said: "An armed society is a polite society" - and it's true. When the concealed-carry laws go into effect in different places here in the USA, the assault rate goes down. That should mean something in the logic category. My mates up in Canada have told me horror tales of people who have defended themselves and have ended up being prosecuted (persecuted?) for doing so. What's up with that?

              - here's maybe an example of one woman someone might be afraid of:

              Mom's over 80, (I won't tell how far, - she has her secret and who am I...?) - she still makes weekly mass and her personal requirements for collecting and donating to worthy causes and such - some of us make it down every week for a dinner and a movie at her place, - basically everyone who knows her, loves her. (I used to get threats on my life so friends could take me Mum and keep her for their own..) - and she's a card-carrying NRA member. (thankfully ignoring their recommendations last election..) She even signed me up a few years ago.
              She lives alone, out in the 'country' (some on here would consider where she is "the boonies" - but it's only 4 miles to Wal-Mart and you can hear the neighbors belch..) where nothing should probably ever happen, but after my dad passed along, (a disabled US vet. - WWII) - she was wanting a little something to keep in the house besides a rifle / shotgun which is pretty much less-than-maneuverable as you may well imagine. So we go off to the gun show. She's looking at the little pearl-handled lead-launchers and .22's... - then one seller backs up my thoughts about how if someone is crazy enough to break into an occupied residence, - you need to stop them cold, not tic them off, - and that a magnum revolver would be the trick as she could practice with .38's and keep .357's loaded for da bears.. She, being a logical woman, listened and bought herself a nice little ported mag which she (finally) keeps loaded in a little cupboard next to her head whenever she's sleeping. (and unloads before the grandkids, well... greatgrandkids come over)
              That woman can tag a small paper plate with the .38's @ around 30 feet, - she proved this to me the first time the gun was ever loaded, - more than good enough to pop any nutcase who would break into her place, and she knows to keep pulling the trigger until it's empty, - no sense in having any argument post fact... ;-)

              heh, - it's no wonder I keep comparing women to that lady... - she's a lot to measure up to. Still mows her own lawns, that home is spotless, and I even caught her washing the house and garage last Fall, - with a bucket and ladder. These past few weeks she's been clearing brush back along the little creek that borders the property. Can't stop her, - don't wanna...

              Heh, - her "stocking-stuffer" a few years ago was a speedloader for the revolver. That brought a few laughs... ;-)
              • As a former resident of the Midwest and an avid fan of venison I would be very sad to lose all the guns. Hunting dear with a bow and arrow is NOT an easy or pretty job.
                • Certainly more challenging Myriad but perhaps also more fun/fulfilling? Must admit all I have ever had to shoot at thus far has been paper thankfully but I have some friends who hunt back in the mid-west and even bow hunt, always sounded like fun.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    And there goes the conversation, leaving the thread, wave now! Bye-bye!
                    Personally I think this is the wrong group of guys to ask. We have our differences, there is certainly a wide variety of guys to choose from here, but one thing we have in common: If you have the cajones to post regularly on a Tribe called "Ask a Sexy Man Anything" - then you are not afraid of women.
                    And speaking of cajones - a little snip and you never have to worry about the kid issue ever again.
                    And, for the record, no guns for me. Bad experience in the family. I do practice archery though in my backyard.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Alas, no. I don't find it more fun or fulfilling. Unless you get a perfect shot it takes the dear a lot longer to die and you end up tracking it through the woods forever. If you miss and wing it you've also still done major damage and you know have a dear with an entire arrow sticking out of it rather than a small hole that may heal with time.
          • Unsu...
            That sounds like a generalization. I think that only some men leave women in the dark. Depends on the man.

            When I'm in a relationship, I tend to ask a lot of questions as I hate misunderstandings and miscommunication. I am careful about how much personal information I give away until some level of trust has been established and I don't think that I'll scare a potential partner away by opening up too much. I do occasionally worry about getting crapped on for being too open sometimes, but I would rather take the chance than not. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

            I'm still trying to find that fine line between being too open and too closed. It's a question I've been thinking about posting on the "ask a sexy woman anything" tribe. How much do women want to know about the man they're with or they just met? If he opens up totally, can women handle that much information and honesty?

            What things in particular, Christine, do you feel that men leave women in the dark about? The status of the relationship? Where they think it's going? We men need a little more to work with here...

  • Unsu...
    How long have I got to hand in my 10,000 word essay on this subject? Seriously, you could write volumes on this.
    • As long as you like. But I know what you mean, I have to write my stuff, edit, and by the time I go to post it, there are other posts with new angles, etc. - then I add on for those ones, and pretty soon there's an essay happening. I guess I should have called the thread, "why didn't the guy answer me?" - but I suspect that's already been addressed : ) I was also motivated by that Paulo Coelho statement I mentionned before, and I wish I could find it again, because he does have an explanation. Anyway it was fun to hear what everyone had to say and thanks. You can all go back to talking about guns or weapons if you like :-)

      To Zen: Your statement re: where is the relationship going? I know that's a classic question and probably one that men (inner) roll their eyes at, or cringe, but when you brought it up, it just reminded me of a friend that went through that. Had she not asked the guy the question, (and she felt very uncomfortable doing it) she would still be at square one with him. He told her something along the lines of -"I'll be transparent (?) with you, you're not the one, but I enjoy our time together , blah, blah, blah. She is the one of the most timid people in the world and it took her a lot to work up the nerve to a) date the guy, b) to ask that stupid question. She felt terrible after she asked, and beat herself up about it, but the point is when was he planning on telling her? 8 months down the road is not better than 2 weeks down the road, it doesn't cushion the blow. It's not so much because we (unattached women) want a man so desperately ,that we ask the question, it's because we need to know to not invest our time in something that is going nowhere. I know it happens to both genders.
      • Unsu...
        Again, I would rather have a woman ask me point-blank about what's going on between us. I know that sometimes I don't analyze the interaction until somebody asks me or something happens that makes it very clear that it's not going to work. If it becomes very clear to me that it's not going to work, I usually tell her so, but try to do so in a gentle fashion as I don't like hurting people. I like to stay friends with women whether the relationship thing works out or not. It's hard to find people who you click with on any level and each one is very valuable.

        I'm glad your friend asked her question so the air could be cleared. Maybe the reason her date didn't mention anything is that he hadn't thought about it until the question was asked. Your friend should definitely not beat herself up over this though. I agree that it's better not to waste one's time on something going nowhere.

        I just hope all this has been helpful for you. IMO, ditch that guy and find somebody better. You've got a lot going for you.

        • ~ or maybe he just didn't know that she was considering him as "The One" with whom to ride the logride of relationship down the flume to "Somewhere" point being, that it's a communication as two-way street thing.

          Maybe he thought they were having fun and just dating, especially if there had been no discussion of "the future", etc.; especially if they'd never had a conversation about these things.

  • Unsu...
    The only women who scare me right now are magistrates and judges. All the women who are close to me are nice and I just don't care about any others enough for them to hurt me.
    • Magistrates & judges are indeed, scary.
      • Unsu...
        I've got charged with assault a police officer - I didn't do it - I'm just betting I get three semi-senile lifelong conservative voters who find me guilty and send me to jail. I bet it's one guy and two women. For some reason interfering old biddies seem to be attracted to this sort of thing.
        • I've changed my mind since last night.

          I made the mistake of casually mentioning that with the impending purchase of our new home, we might think about replacing some of our furniture.

          Admittedly, some of it is carryover from my college days - But it's comfy and not awful in appearance.

          Since that 30 second discussion last night, I have been bombarded with $1500-5000 living room set pictures and dining room extravaganzas from my wife of not-quite-a-month. She actually priced out not only furniture, but delivery charges across the state.

          Women do indeed, scare me sometimes. : )
          • Damn Finn that would scare the crap out of me!! Good luck to you and your checkbook ;)
            • Dude, - tell her you can't stand modern furniture's construction and that you'd prefer something more "real" that'll age gracefully and never go out of style, - 'cause once you've accomplished the buying of it, - you want to have it around you for life. That might get her started looking in the second-hand stores for real, solid wood-type of stuff which can be EZ on the wallet while also being satsifying to the eye and to the mind that you have mostly unique furnishings that the neighbors'll only be able to dream of havin'... Just keep her outta the "antique" sort of stores. Same stuff, - just marked up 800%...

              I simply cannot ABIDE anything made of pressed wood, stapled and upholstered pine, or that laminated crrrrap from IKEA. (I had to purchase, transport and assemble a little over $4000 worth of that junque in July, - NEVER in my home...)
              Let the Europeans keep that fake furniture style. Besides, - it'd never keep the zombies out if you ever have to pile it against the door... - nor make much heat if the Earth moves away from the sun and you need to burn it for heat. :-D

              • Wanna hear a good one?

                I suggested that since we are moving to a city with a high turnover rate, (Lots of people only there for a year or two with a world-class medical facility) maybe we should look at some used furniture.

                The response was some diatribe on how "we don't know what they DID on that sofa..."

                Ack. Didn't really wanna go there.

                I'm 100% on the older furniture though Cowboy - You only have to look at the frame to know how good it is, after all :)
  • Unsu...
    well judgung the guy friends that i have, i think it's cuz they have this kind of wall they put up to seem cool and interesting to attract a girl BUT they're afraid of a girl talking to them and trying to have a real conversation with them because then the real them is revealed. They basically dont like deep conversations- thats why they like to flirt and stuff and avoid deep convos. does this make any sence?
    • << I'm 100% on the older furniture though Cowboy - You only have to look at the frame to know how good it is, after all :)>>

      Sounds like you're in for it, Finn...

      When I sold furniture at a Door Store years ago, sometimes I'd pull folks aside, & tell them where some great nearby used furniture shops were. We had some decent couches & tables, but most of the shelving was crap. The classifieds & garage sales have brought me some fantastic stuff for very little $. Screw cheap fiberboard w/ an overlay. I'll take a few dings in a beautiful older piece anyday. They can be fixed.
    • "does this make any sence?"
      - - - - >
      It does.
      When guys get older, you've had plenty of time to ruminate about all that meaning of life stuff, so you don't mind yakking about it at that point, and even if you don't have a coherent philosophy put together, you're more comfortable with the fact that you don't know, because you also realize that nobody fucking knows, really.
      • :-) WORD, brother.
        • What S.A. said is definitely what I'm finding to be true. There are, blessedly younger guys that are exceptions, & I think if we evolve well, there'll be more of 'em. But for now.... so, so true. And actually, as men & women grow older, our hormones start to synch up- we really do become more alike on a bio level.
          • Unsu...
            After all my years of dating, I don't want to get involved anymore w/ a man who is "afraid"...I'd like to know at the early part of the relationship (b4 sex) if he is that way. An old lady who had been around ALOT when she was divorced many years ago told me; if you have one date w/ a man & like him, ask HIM out! See how he handles it...if he runs, then good, you've weeded him out...if he is happy that you asked him, then you know he has potential. Sorry if I sound bitchy, but I'm no spring chicken.

            The man for me will want to be with me, I'm not talking about heavy duty co-dependency crap, but a healthy inter-dependent thing!

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