Hurting Men's feelings.....

topic posted Wed, May 13, 2009 - 3:17 PM by  Aschleigh
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I have only realized lately how much I probably have hurt the feelings of the men in my life. I think I've had this attitude ( certainly not totally my fault) from society that men can handle things . I know I have had sex with men without caring about their feelings ( they didn't necesarrily care about mine either) . Men are really vulnerable in some ways. Men don't tend to say " that hurt my feelings" . Or " I deserve my feelings to be taken into account here" . I've said some mean things in arguments. I was trying to hurt their feelings because I felt so hurt myself. But I realize that men are really hurt by women, often their mothers ( IE way before I enter the picture )Maybe men will speak up more now. Do you think men who are more aware of their feelings and more likely to speak up ? Do you think society is creating more spaces for men to epxress themselves?
posted by:
Aschleigh
Los Angeles
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  • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

    Wed, May 13, 2009 - 5:30 PM
    well.... I'm not a man myself, but how can anyone speak up who isn't aware of their own feelings to begin with? it's at least a step in the right direction.
    • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

      Wed, May 13, 2009 - 8:31 PM
      >"how can anyone speak up who isn't aware of their own feelings to begin with?"
      Much fewer men, or women, are not "aware" of their feelings than ARE. I so often hear the statement that because a man divorces himself emotionally in situations, that he is out of touch with the feelings that motivated him to do that. Trust me, the most distant fucker you ever knew, had connection to his emotions. It is the way it was NOT expressed that confuses us. The reasons it wasn't expressed are very likely extremely emotionally based.
  • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

    Wed, May 13, 2009 - 6:06 PM
    The Men's Rights Movement is continually addressing these isues, as well as other stigmas associated with the currently double-standard bearing feminist social system.

    Standing up and sharing those feelings to all those who've hurt you isn't the most productive way to change their minds; the primary benefit is the catharsis the expressing man feels when he shares it.

    I certainly think society is doing the absolute -opposite- of creating more spaces for men to 'express themselves'; the only ones that are sanctioned aren't really designed to encourage genuine male expression, but rather a sad, reconstructed form of it that only reflects how the modern West feels men are 'supposed' to feel/act. There are several men's groups that allow the former, but often they are shunned by many in academia and the public as regressive and barbaric.

    The West currently does not tolerate natural masculine expression, but this is nothing new. The only people 'creating more spaces' for men to honestly express themselves exist outside of the current status quo, out of legal prudence and memetic determent.

    ~ Kole
    • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

      Wed, May 13, 2009 - 8:33 PM
      If men "got" sex for genuinely being themselves, that's what they'd be doing, and loved for it. lmao
      • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

        Thu, May 14, 2009 - 9:31 AM
        "The reasons it wasn't expressed are very likely extremely emotionally based. "

        So men are expressing their feleings or are not. There is no place for men to express their feelings in this society, maybe there is.
        See This is why I start threads. There seems to be no consensis about any of this, not that there should be.

        I work as a therapist , so hopefully in my work and my life I provide some space for men to talk authentically about who they are. I am consistantly talking to my nephew about feelings, he's 13 so maybe it goes in one ear and out the other but sometimes he repeats what I say and I know he heard me.

        One factor I remember sometimes is that a lot of people have little to say at all. They are not feeling or thinking particullarly deeply , they tend to conform and react to their surroundings and not have original ideas of their own. I'm used to being around smart introspective people, not everyone is expressive cause there's not that much to express.
      • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

        Thu, May 14, 2009 - 2:28 PM
        "If men "got" sex for genuinely being themselves, that's what they'd be doing, and loved for it."

        The men that do, are. They're often very un-PC about it as well. :)

        ~ Kole
        • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

          Thu, May 14, 2009 - 3:54 PM
          Poontangle...I only skimmed the article but it seems to suggest that women in some ways are more naturally bi-sexual or pansexual. Regradless of what the women said in their notes , they were aroused by sex of just about any kind.
          It makes sense to me. Women are more sensitive to all sorts of stimuli. The ocean turns me on sometimes. I'm totally conscious of being attracted to beautiful women, but I'll bet women who are not conscious of it are still aroused by beautiful women sometimes.
          I don't think the research is complete by any strench but men and women have very different biologies, Like brain chemistry, brain circuit wise.

          And yes men "get" sex for being themselves. I wonder if they would say they are "getting" sex. Because that sounds like an exchange, sex for something. Men who are themselves maybe aren't exchanging anything for sex. They are sharing their own sexuality with other people.
          • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

            Thu, May 14, 2009 - 4:21 PM
            >"Men who are themselves maybe aren't exchanging anything for sex. They are sharing their own sexuality with other people. "

            Yes, that is good to me.

            The article not only showed women may be more pan-sexuallly stimulated, but I was pointing out that they often "reported" that they were not aroused, when they were, physiologically. They were lubricating yet said they weren't aroused. This is about as limited a sampling as any study you could name. I thought it was interesting that men were presented as having a kind of "shunting" filter for gay sex.

            Anyway, I think for both men and women, to honestly express just what emotions you are in touch with would get a bit too sexy and sticky for social/political correctness real quick. If men do in fact think about sex several times an hour, and women are not so far behind that statistic. Many men would get slapped several times a daily for "being real." But that would happen just being honest with many people in non-sex areas. lol
    • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

      Thu, May 14, 2009 - 7:16 PM
      Kole.

      Ill second that statement, ive oftne found the same to be true, okay not OFTEN, lets be honest, ALWAYS.
      • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

        Fri, May 15, 2009 - 10:47 AM
        I know I have a fairly rare perspective. I do a lot of therapy, where expressing authentic emotions is necesarry. And I go to school with a bunch of practising and learning to be therapists, so we talk to each other pretty expressively. And I go to the Agape spiritual center , which is an expressive place.
        So I have carved a few places out for myself to be expressive and open and I tend to carry that with me where ever I go. It seems healthier to me. I grew up in a repressed family environemnt and there's lots of illness ,mental and physical that comes from that. So that's not something I want to happen to me. Respression isn't healthy so why do we still do it? And now I know several men who are very authenic and expressive with their emotions, even if it's not exactly the way I do it, they are open about how they feel basically. So I know it can be done.
        • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

          Fri, May 15, 2009 - 4:15 PM
          As usual I fear for your clients. I see your communication here and wonder... Perhaps you are a good therepist but if this is indicative, ..... well best of luck and keep a lawyer on retainer.

          JSin
    • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

      Mon, May 18, 2009 - 7:43 PM
      I agree with Kole.

      However, if I'm honest, I'll say that anyone, male or female, who talks about their feelings too much annoys the hell out of me. "Too much" being a subjective term, of course, but anything more than 'hey, that hurt my feelings, i'm sensitive in that area because of xyz" followed by a quick apology and maybe a question or two, then dropping it and moving forward is really a turnoff to me. Not that I won't be aware of that trigger in the future, but really, awareness, concise communication, then move on. Seriously.
      • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

        Wed, May 20, 2009 - 8:46 AM
        I saw the cutess movie last night called the Wackness. It was all about this really sensitive young guy and dating in 1994. There are a rash of movies these days about real guys and how it is to date , it was so sweet.
  • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

    Thu, May 14, 2009 - 11:51 AM

    Men today are more aware of their feelings than they were fifty years ago, but there is still the stereotype of the macho unfeeling superman for men to follow today. Indeed, many people inherently reject the idea that men should have any outward displays of emotion. What this does, of course, is deny males the opportunity to vent their feelings, forcing them to bottle them up. This, of course, leads to emotional instability, alcoholism, domestic violence, and a whole host of other problems too numerous to mention.

    As Herb Goldberg noted in his groundbreaking book, "The Hazards of Being Male", The male has paid a heavy price for his masculine, 'privilege' and power. He is out of touch with his emotions and his body." Unless men are allowed to express their emotions or flex their roles in a relationship they will be trapped within a role which binds their creativity and inner beauty. That would be a terrible tragedy.

    More to the point, it wasn't always this way. During the Middle Ages men were encouraged to show their emotions, often weeping openly over some tragedy or another. Somewhere along the line, the cliched image of an unfeeling stone became the role model for men. I don't know what it was, but it's hardly a fair one.

    Have you hurt men's feelings, Aschleigh? Probably. Will they tell you? Probably not.

    It's going to take more than a hundred years or so to build a better man, but the way to get to that goal is to be considerate of men's feelings. Just because they don't show them doesn't mean that they don't have them. Also, encourage the men around you to show their emotions, and be accepting of them when they do.
    • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

      Thu, May 14, 2009 - 12:42 PM
      Yeah that's really scary. I had a grandpa ( I had two actually) who was a great grandpa but he was frustrated and angry and mean to his wife and couldn't express anything but anger, although his love for his children and grandchildren still came through. His love for his wife was suspect. But I wonder if he died feeling like no one really knew him, maybe he felt like he didn't really know himself.
      That bottling up of emotions really effect the body too, there must be an emotional aspect to cancer, emphazemia, mental illness etc..
      I only recently figured out that the guys I date ( who tend to be very feeling types) may be as scared as I am about intimacy. Especially if they are either cut off or totally enmeshed with their mothers, or any unresolved or basically frozen feelings about their moms.

      It may have been on another post , but women's standards I'm sure so a lot of shaping of men's realities. I tend to believe that it is up to the man ( or women, including me) to feel our own feelings, make some sense of them, attach meaning, etc..
      If my grandpa had had that kind of women in his life, he may have been a different man. Although if he were a different man he would have attracted a different women, and no body was expecting emotional openess and emotional self-responsibility from their marriages back then, this is like 1920 when my grandparents were married I think.
      Anyway, Iread this cool article by Rita WIlson, she interviewed her parents who have been married for like 50 years. Basically happilly, they get along. And she asked her mother if given all that she knows now would she do it all over again, marry Rita's father. And her mother said No. She married him because he was dashing and provided her with a good life and was a good parent, etc.. But they didn't actually connect, she ( rita's mom) always used her girlfriends to talk about the "important " stuff with. That her intimacy came from her friendships with her girlfriends. And she only had realized recently ( she was like 70) that that was what she really wanted in her marriage, so she would do it differently if she had it all to be done again.
      I thought that was amazing and insightful. So I'm trying to get smart before I get married right? And I instintively know that all that nice houses, trips flash means little if there's no deep connection.
      • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

        Mon, May 18, 2009 - 7:55 AM
        just because someone isn't " expressive " does not imply that they lack deep feelings,,,

        personally i don't feel a great need to share or talk about how i feel a lot,,,
        tho i will let on what my boundaries are, and to relate with a woman i also
        need to hear a " tone " and usually that tone also stirs my creative energies, which then
        also allows channels of relating to take place in a mutual manner,,,

        Talking a lot doesn't always imply good communication just like
        a lot of activity doesn't imply accomplishment,,,
        • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

          Mon, May 18, 2009 - 10:59 AM
          yes, there are two steps, having deep feelings and then sharing them with someone ( the women in your life) . That's how most women feel close to people , we share our feelings. I feel close to my male friends that way , although we do things together too.
          • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

            Mon, May 18, 2009 - 7:09 PM
            there is also this to consider, : that a mans feelings may not be ABOUT the same things as women, that we may express the same emotions differently, ( ie. through posture or facial expression or even through intimidation or violent behaviour, that though violent in nature may NOT be dangerous, merely posturing for social status among a peer group. ) that we may have feelings about things which, to a woman, may seem unworthy of being emotionally invested.

            And there is also the way a mans expression of emotion may invite judgement from his peers vs the way a woman expresses HER emotions and the insuing judgement of her peers, these are RADICALLY different, and IMHO is the foundation of most of the reasons a man may repress.
            In short, men adn women may feel the same types of emotions but about different things and may invite DISTINCTLY different repercussions. NO judgemtns here , just saying that they are vastly different, not necessarily good or bad.
            • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

              Mon, May 18, 2009 - 7:16 PM
              thank you wand. That helps a lot. I tend to hang out with guys who are very comfortable talking with women and not that interested in hanging out with the guys. Maybe that's one reason, as a women I will validate some things in these men that your peers won't.
          • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

            Fri, May 22, 2009 - 9:35 AM
            I think there's a third step too. Once you've felt the feelings and shared them then you need to figure out what to do with them.

            As Melissa said, above, making a big deal out of it and going on about it isn't right or helpful but I think there's more to it than just saying "that hurt" and then get an apology and move on.

            Sometimes (often?) what hurt (or triggered whatever emotion) has nothing to do with the person that triggered the emotion. Identifying the source of the triggers and figuring out what to do about them without expecting the world to change to stop the triggers is, IMHO, emotional maturity.
  • Re: Hurting Men's feelings.....

    Sun, May 24, 2009 - 9:22 AM
    I'm not into being open too much anymore, been burned too many times. As for safe places for men to express themselves? Society seems to be gravitating more towards orthodox spirtuality and if this is the case then we will see more of the promise keeper type of guy that tends to be more strict and stoic.

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