Thoughts?
What are some good masculine deities? and what makes them good and why?
which MAle God best represents, ( to you) all the best qualities of Manhood?Why? and what are HIs qualities that make Him this way?
What are some good masculine deities? and what makes them good and why?
which MAle God best represents, ( to you) all the best qualities of Manhood?Why? and what are HIs qualities that make Him this way?
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Re: Manhood, and the masculine divine
Tue, April 1, 2008 - 11:49 AMWell, I'm a fan of gods like Dionysus, Hermes, Loki, Odin, Coyote, Anansi, and such.... but I'm a "sex, death, and madness" person and I'm not sure I'd call them ideal representations of what is male. Herne is a good representation of a positive masculine energy. Baldur and Tyr are good gods too. Shiva is awesome but he encompasses both the best and worst of masculinity, which is part of his appeal. -
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Re: Manhood, and the masculine divine
Thu, April 24, 2008 - 3:43 PMShiva is a pretty good one.. especially as he's in perpetual erection and union with his consort, Shakti.
I think anything truly devine must emcompass and express both sides of duality, without apology. I mean, hey, "sometimes you feel like a nut.. sometimes you don't." Depends on what's called for. =)
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Re: Manhood, and the masculine divine
Tue, April 1, 2008 - 12:37 PMThor. If one is going for strictly masculine, Thor incorporates most of the traditional male characteristics; strength, courage, loyalty, and also a sense of fun and daring, as well as a clearly masculine sexuality (the cross-dressing incident was a one-time thing, and for a good cause). -
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Re: Manhood, and the masculine divine
Tue, April 1, 2008 - 12:45 PMHmmm, Thor also has a NASTY temper and very little self control -
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Re: Manhood, and the masculine divine
Tue, April 1, 2008 - 1:20 PMOnly because his brother Loki is a jealous ass . . . -
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Re: Manhood, and the masculine divine
Tue, April 1, 2008 - 1:25 PMLoki is no brother of Thor's, and if you read all the old myths one develops the picture that Loki got shafted. The Aesir are a bunch of liars, thieves, and cheats as a general rule and Loki gets blamed half the time for things he didn't even do.
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Re: Manhood, and the masculine divine
Thu, April 24, 2008 - 3:48 PMNASTY temper?... How about the incredible HULK lol. Marvel super-heros were all complex (most of their alter-egos double-initialed.. Bruce Banner, Richard Reed, Peter Parker...) and I think that was a big part of their appeal - champions who had foibles. But that is usually an element of the legendary, mythical "heros"
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Re: Manhood, and the masculine divine
Tue, April 1, 2008 - 4:31 PMDamn! Sounds just like ME!!
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Odin or Hades
Tue, April 1, 2008 - 4:08 PMGods are some pretty heavy stuff to compare oneself to, and The Bacchae pretty much shows what to expect if you think you can mess with or mainline that kind of energy. In my arrogant moments I like to fancy myself rather like Odin or Hades, but I screw up like Coyote on a bender. I toyed a bit with that "Gods in Everyman" stuff back in the early 1990's, but think that most guys would be better off looking to more mortal archetypes like Merlin, Arthur, Odysseus or (for the sissies) Jesus and Krishna.
I like Odin and Hades because they are grounded, wise, dark and deliberate: simultaneously in touch with divinity, mortality and temperance. -
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Blue Dude w a Flute?
Tue, April 1, 2008 - 4:40 PMYeah. All the Hindu gods are effete. Just look at them: clear skin, stick legs, no hair. As near as I can tell, all the balls in that pantheon belongs to Kali and the demons. Sorry. -
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Re: Blue Dude w a Flute?
Tue, April 1, 2008 - 5:20 PMI'm not sure I'd call them effete and I don't think Krishna's for pussies (nor are most of the male gods bald) but it is true that the Hindu faiths have a different understanding of the male-female dynamic than Eastern culture does.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hind...and_gender -
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Re: Blue Dude w a Flute?
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 5:48 PMDamn me and my lysdeexia. That should have been WESTERN cultures
feh
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Re: Blue Dude w a Flute?
Thu, April 24, 2008 - 3:54 PM>"I don't think Krishna's for pussies"
lol.. I think he'd do a pussy pretty well, as any Gopi would testify.
But I DO agree that Khrisha, nor Jesus of Nazareth, for that matter cannot be pegged as whooses. The truly devine masculine is not lop-sided as some brute, but is not only feeling but thinking, not only strong but merciful. Nothing to prove, but instant in championing a worthy cause.
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Re: Blue Dude w a Flute?
Tue, April 1, 2008 - 10:55 PMappearances can be decieving mac dude -
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Androgyny is Fine
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 6:57 PMA lot of people are attracted to slender, androgynous men, and I'm glad. It was my main selling point well into my twenties (and is largely the Hindu ideal), but it is not, by definition, very masculine. It can certainly be a flavor of masculinity, but is not the first or hegemonic meaning, nor the god-form for much of anyone in the western world except Dionysus and the classical, renaissance Christ. -
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Re: Androgyny is Fine
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 7:06 PMYou're taking gods from a relatively hairless culture and imposing Western definitions of AESTHETIC masculinity onto them. That seems wrong. Baldur was also a pretty boy, so was Loki, so was Freyr, so were Apollo and early depictions of Hermes/Mercury (who was definitively masculine as his icons were giant stone penises posted at crossroads.... which reminds me that Pan and Priapus have both been overlooked), in Gaelic traditions the Fey, which could arguably be called demi-gods, were androgynous as was the spring representation of the Green Man/Herne. The beardless "pretty" man is a common representation in godhood. Yes, there are fewer in Western culture. There are fewer GODS in Western culture being as it's been dominated by monotheism for so much of its history. Why the antipathy towards the Eastern deities?
On a side note: you could always go straight to worshiping the penis like the Japanese:
images.google.com/imgres -
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Re: Androgyny is Fine
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 7:08 PMOops, one link too far down the research trail. I meant to post this one: www.yamasa.org/japan/engl..._jinja.html
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You are Right, Myriad
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 7:11 PMI am. Probably out of my own aging, fragile sense of self and contempt for David Deida and his trustafarian, newage wannabes. I do appreciate how much classical Athenian pederasts did love their beautiful, beautiful boys. -
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Re: You are Right, Myriad
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 11:06 PMhey mac, those are some, lets say, interesting statements that you make.
"or (for the sissies) Jesus and Krishna. "
"Yeah. All the Hindu gods are effete. Just look at them: clear skin, stick legs, no hair. "
"slender, androgynous men.. is largely the Hindu ideal"
care to explain how you come to these conclusions? -
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care to explain how you come to these conclusions?
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 1:22 PMUmmm. Maybe by looking at the art. -
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Re: care to explain how you come to these conclusions?
Wed, April 9, 2008 - 9:07 PMthen i would advice you to reconsider your conclusions - and refrain from making statements that have no validity. because they are quite incorrect.
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No no, the pederasts were chasing Adonis and Ganymede
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 1:01 AMA homophobic response to male beauty is not going to win you many points in this crowd. Saying that all idealization of male beauty that does not include rippling muscles and bristling chest hair must stem from latent pedophilia is not only ridiculous but insulting in the extreme. Bigotry is unbecoming. -
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Winning "points?"
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 1:27 PMWhat does classical greek pederasty have to do with either pedophilia or modern homosexuality? You generally tend to be better about precise language than that, M. Please see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty
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Re: Winning "points?"
Sat, April 5, 2008 - 6:00 AMPedophilia means love of children. Pederasts are men who love young boys (boys who would be considered under the age of consent in modern American culture): ergo homosexual pedophilia.
My comment about homophobia also referred to your comments about Hindu gods being "effete" and "for sissies." -
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Re: Winning "points?"
Thu, April 10, 2008 - 5:46 PM"My comment about homophobia also referred to your comments about Hindu gods being "effete" and "for sissies." "
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I didn't pick up on that being particularly homophobic, anymore than I thought your "Krsna isn't for pussies" comment was homophobic. Maybe Mac just likes bear-types in a deity.
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Re: No no, the pederasts were chasing Adonis and Ganymede
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 5:33 PMWhoa. Think you may've jumped a bit far there, Meery.
His intent wasn't to mock their ideal of masculinity, but to perhaps provide a basis behind the plethora of male sculptures and 'hairless' Godliness inunduating the ancient Greek mythos.
Das all.
~ Kole -
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Re: No no, the pederasts were chasing Adonis and Ganymede
Wed, April 9, 2008 - 9:13 PMfunny i read a homo-erotic vibe from those statements.
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Re: Androgyny is Fine
Sun, May 11, 2008 - 2:29 PM"You're taking gods from a relatively hairless culture and imposing Western definitions of AESTHETIC masculinity onto them."
i appreciate the distinction myriad but you arent talking about the indian culture, are you? i guess im just confused how people are thinking of indian men as not so hairy. dem's some of the hairiest mfs of em all. -
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Re: Androgyny is Fine
Sun, May 11, 2008 - 4:22 PMMost of the gents I know from India could grow one hell of a beard, but their chests are smooth as a baby's bottom. Some of the gents in their 40s seem to have a little thatch of chest hair, but other than that there's nothing. It also seems that all the younger men I know (under 30) have NO facial hair while all the "older" men I know (over 40) have at LEAST a mustache. Not sure why. -
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Re: Androgyny is Fine
Sun, May 11, 2008 - 5:24 PMdam, that is WEIRD. i cant think of many-not-so-hairy indian men, like, at all. maybe they are from the south?
as for the staches, its that hair thing again. injun men looooves their hair. specially the older gen. staches were considered hot at some point. tho no facial hair, damn, again, weird. -
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Re: Androgyny is Fine
Sun, May 11, 2008 - 8:15 PMAccording to my partner (who knows WAY more than me as he spent several years actually living in India) mustaches are a sign of masculinity but very few Indian men can actually grow a full beard. Apparently the chin hair comes in patching and scraggly if at all. Now, in places where there has been a lot of interbreeding either with their British erstwhile conquerors or the Turks I imagine that does not hold as true. -
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Re: Androgyny is Fine
Sun, May 11, 2008 - 8:29 PM"but very few Indian men can actually grow a full beard. Apparently the chin hair comes in patching and scraggly if at all. Now, in places where there has been a lot of interbreeding either with their British erstwhile conquerors or the Turks I imagine that does not hold as true."
oh my gosh, that is so - that just makes me laugh. that is totally contraire to my experience with india. and, yknow, im from there.
maybe just a totally random sample? i dont think ive ever met a patchy scraggly chin haired indian man. except the far east indian men, who're extremely dark with totally chinese/burmese features.
the north has some influence of the aryans but the south is indian equivalent of aboriginies. black people features. but maybe not so hairy? im not as familiar with the south.
totally fascinating. -
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Re: Androgyny is Fine
Mon, May 12, 2008 - 1:47 PMHmmm, now I'll have to ask him which part of India he was staying in. I know my experiences have almost certainly been effected by the fact that all the Indian gents I know are living either in DC or Portland. There are certainly at least cultural differences to be considered. -
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Re: Androgyny is Fine
Mon, May 12, 2008 - 1:48 PMHuh, he said he was in the NW. I haven't a clue.
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Re: Manhood, and the masculine divine
Tue, April 1, 2008 - 4:17 PMWell, maybe apollo. he plays the guitar. he has a lot of other attirbutes, too, kind of a catch-all god; he can do medicine, and fight, and is involved with geometry and learning.
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Re: Manhood, and the masculine divine
Tue, April 1, 2008 - 8:35 PMIn most every mythological/religious line you will find a representative of the Masculine force of the universe.
Hinduism has Krishna, Shiva, Vishnu, and an entire host of Gods.
Judaism promotes Jehovah.
Islam, the God Allah.
Christianity embraces masculinity in a triune form of power, wisdom and love combined (God, Holy Spirit and Jesus).
Modern Luciferianism focuses more on the rebellious, individualistic self-inspired 'masterism' of the Fallen Angel as an inspiration for self-empowerment.
See the point? Most of them represent -something- masculine that is appreciable anywhere.
~ Kole -
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Re: Manhood, and the masculine divine
Tue, April 1, 2008 - 9:04 PMZeus all the way.
Total stud who fathered notables as Athena and Helen of Troy. Has the balanced power and prudence which makes him a great leader amongst leaders..
www.pantheon.org/articles/z/zeus.html -
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Re: Manhood, and the masculine divine
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 5:50 PMWait.... Zeus is prudent? He's the most philanderous diety known to man and often gets his lovers killed! I don't want any man in my life basing his idea of masculinity off of Zeus! I agree he's masculine, totally, but I'm not sure he's a positive representation of the male principle.
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Re: Manhood, and the masculine divine
Thu, April 24, 2008 - 4:00 PMUh.. Zeus was known to take more than a few rash actions. I wouldn't exactly call him the ideal of "prudence"
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Re: Manhood, and the masculine divine
Tue, April 1, 2008 - 10:07 PMThe gods are anthropomorphic interpretations of ideas and energies and intentions. I think that there are positive elements to be found in each of these manifestations. From the ultimately powerful, paternalistic to the gentle brother, the tender lover to the wildness of nature. I don't know that I could pick just one that typifies my "ideal male image". The men I have loved the most have contained all of those elements...power, control, confidence, tenderness, humour, sensuality, wisdom.
The god faces that appeal most to me are the horned god, Cernunos, of the wild and the dance and fertility and joy and earthiness. When I dance, he whirls with me and when I fuck, he wears my love's body. And, perhaps surprisingly, the Jesus that I grew up knowing, wise and curious and tender and strong and loving...imperfect but beloved. This was no sissy Ted Nugent looking Jesus...he was the carpenter, he worked with his hands, he drank and he screwed, he spoke his truth, died for what he believed in. Despite his own fear, he did what he believed needed to be done.
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Re: Manhood, and the masculine divine
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 2:57 AMZeus/Jupiter
The ultimate father figure. Passionate, loving, and occasionally vengeful, but always swayed by Athena (wisdom), and Venus (love). The Greek/Roman myths are torrid and scandalous, but he is always firmly in control. -
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Re: Manhood, and the masculine divine
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 7:21 AMIm sorry, but Zeus sometimes cracks me up. Yes, powerful, protective and vengeful...absolutely granted. But the guy was totally controlled by his dick. He fucked anything female, going so far as to turn himself into various animals to do it, not to mention devouring his lover, Metis and that incident of patricide in his youth...lol. -
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Re: Manhood, and the masculine divine
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 8:01 AMIt's the whole "if you see your master on the road, kill him thing". It's not easy being the Patron diety of Olympus, and yes his dick did lead him around a bit, but so did his heart and his mind.
Some women are so beautiful, I'm sure most of the guys in this tribe would switch to what every form necessary to ravish them :P
I relate to Zeus, he seems mortal in those respects.
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